America can no longer be trusted

Nato was created to keep Soviet Communism in a box. Its in a pine box now, permanently. Russia has the same GDP as France. Europe is safe from Russia due to Russia's lack of power, not because of NATO.

The world you're depicting is decades dead.

 

I like NATO and have served in NATO. However, we have been paying too much for too long. Time for the other members to step up and pay. However, if they don't believe we can be trusted, we should leave. Not a difficult decision.

Any war with Russia will be nuclear and we don't need NATO for that. We have been developing new nuclear weapons and refurbishing the rest. something which should have been done a long time ago.

 

Russia is still working on taking over the Ukraine. Russia is assassinating Putin critics outside of the country.

In fact Trump's current problems are a result of his obvious dealings with the Russians.

 

So the country that you suggest Europe needs US military protection from has been trying to take over just the Ukraine for years.

Thats sounds like an enemy that Europe can handle by itself if it has to...

 

Anyone that thinks any of this is okay has zero sense of history and the importance of American leadership in the world. They are pretty much like Trump, "Hey we can save a buck!" Trump, of course, understands nothing beyond ROI. Trump and his followers don't care enough about America to read the Constitution. Much less the history of America. Hey! Wake up! We are surrendering our global leadership to Russia! And to think I suffered through the Cold War for people that just don't care.

 

If the Ukraine had joined NATO, Russia would not have taken over Crimea, and the Russians would not be harrassing the Ukraine's eastern border.

And, if the Ukraine had joined NATO, the US Congress would not have passed a bill that gave the Ukraine hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, to help them fight off the Russians. And if that hadn't happened Trump would not of been able to hold up the money in an effort to illegally force the Ukrainian government to assist Trump in his reelection efforts, and Trump would not be facing impeachment.

 

Conservatives keep asking what effect Russian interference has caused. Before Trump ran for president, conservatives said horrible things about Russia. They even tried to insult liberals by accusing them of being soft for Russia. Then the Russian interference slipped in with the rest of the right wing propaganda. Now the conservative world is quite friendly towards Russia and Putin, and are perfectly happy with Trump's collusion with them.

 

None of that has anything to do with why we should be militarily defending Europe from a relatively weaker enemy.

The argument is not whether Russia is 'bad' or not. The question is whether Europe needs us to militarily defend them from Russia, and why. Can you speak to that?

 

I don't know whether he can or not, but he's at least trying to solve a century problem that everyone else has simply ignored and in the end that's the only true safety for the Kurds.

 

Democrats in 2016- "Trump will start WW3"
Democrats today "How dare he withdraw our troops from the ME"! How dayuhhh he!

 

China is doing pretty well without firing a shot
the long term impact of abandoning our allies will leave us with no friends in any crisis

The next war will not be fought with our 300 million guns.... despite your self gratifying imagination

 

I'm not a Democrat. Trump is a putz. He lacks the backbone and intelligence to fight a war. Look at how much he, and Giuliani screwed up in his attempt to force the Ukrainian government to fabricate evidence for his conspiracy theories. It is getting him impeached.

 

This is true we abandoned the Kurds.

So tell me, what should he have done?

Should he have abandoned our 900 guys there too?
Should he have sent 20,000 fresh troops to Syria to resist a turkish invasion?

You guys would have screamed bloody murder no matter what he did.

 

I think when you talk about incompetence, you need to change that to Obama not Trump.


In 2014, after Russia annexed Crimea and began arming separatists in eastern Ukraine with tanks, armored vehicles and rocket launchers, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko came to Washington to plead for weapons to defend his country. In an impassioned address to a joint session of Congress — with Biden sitting directly behind him — Poroshenko said his country appreciated the nonlethal assistance he was getting, but declared “one cannot win a war with blankets.”

The Obama-Biden administration was unmoved. The Wall Street Journal reported at the time that “President Barack Obama stuck to his refusal to provide weapons or other lethal military gear to Ukraine.” Why?

Team Obama feared that lethal aid would provoke Moscow.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/09/sorry-joe-team-obama-refused-to-arm-ukraine-at-all/


https://www.newsweek.com/trump-tank-killing-missile-fight-russia-ukraine-759745


The Trump administration approved the sale of anti-tank missiles to Ukraine on Friday as it continues to fight pro-Russian forces in the eastern part of the country, a move that has angered the Kremlin and signifies the U.S. government's escalating involvement in the conflict.

The decision to sell the Javelin missiles also comes not long after the Trump administration approved a limited weapons sale between American manufacturers and Ukraine of Model M107A1 sniper systems, ammunition and associated equipment.

1. Expert: Obama Fails Kurds, Who Are 'Begging for Arms ...
   https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Obama-Kurds-ISIS-Iraq/2014/09/30/id/597690
   Sep 30, 2014 · President Barack Obama has pledged to protect and arm Syrians and Iraqis facing terrorist attacks by the Islamic State (ISIS) but has so far failed to protect Kurds on the Turkish border of Syria, said Robert Zubrin, a senior fellow with the Center for Security Policy
2. 
   
3. 
   
4. 
   
5. Obama refuses to provide the Kurds weapons to defend ...
   https://reform4syria.org/obama-give-the-kurds-weapons-to-defend-themselves
   Oct 03, 2014 · As Barack Obama refused to arm the Free Syrian Army for over three years and refused to arm the Ukrainian Government to defend themselves from the Assad and the Putin terrors, now comes to our attention that Obama is refusing to provide the Kurds with weapons even as ISIL besieges the town of Kobani (Also called Ayn al-Arab).

1. OBAMA REFUSES TO GIVE JORDAN DRONES TO BATTLE ISIS! …
   https://americasfreedomfighters.com/obama-refuses-to-give-jordan-drones-to-battle-isis...
   Obama and the State Dept. have refused a request by Jordan to send unarmed Predator drones saying that 'Jordan is not a strong enough ally of the U.S.

Israel shocked by Obama's betrayal of Mubarak - Reuters

https://www.reuters.com › article › us-egypt-israel-usa › israel-shocked-by-...
Jan 31, 2011 - If Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak is toppled, Israel will lose one of its very few ... Barack Obama will bear a large share of the blame, Israeli pundits said on Monday. ... Lebanon and Syria are still technically at war with Israel. ... Writing in Haaretz, Ari Shavit said Obama had betrayed “a moderate Egyptian


Saudi Prince: Obama has made a mess of the Mideast ...

https://www.ff.org › saudi-prince-obama-has-made-a-mess-of-the-mideast
Jan 13, 2014 - Obama Netanyahu Israel Middle East Peace ... white,” said Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former intelligence head of Saudi Arabia, in The New York Times. ... As far as international relations go, the prince said Mr. Obama needs to ...
How Barack Obama turned his back on Saudi Arabia and its ...

https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East
Mar 12, 2016 - Barack Obama speaks with Saudi Arabia's King Salman, left, as they ... Mr Goldberg says that by refusing to bomb Syria, Obama “broke with ..... it made in Iraq in 2003, Obama concedes that “Libya is a mess” and ... Chaos and Caliphate: Jihadis and the West in the Struggle for the Middle East (OR Books

 

The Left bitched because he got tough with our NATO Allies. Said he was driving our Allies away. Both Bush and Obama tried to get NATO to put their fair share into a very weak NATO without success. Trump got it. ( Nato members increase defence spending by $100 billion ...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/27/nato-members-increase-defence-spending-100...

Jan 27, 2019 · Nato states will increase their defence spending by $100 billion in response to Donald Trump's demands that European allies shoulder a greater financial burden, the …
Author: Julie Allen


NATO head praises Trump for tough talk to member countries
https://nypost.com/2019/01/27/nato-head-praises-trump-for-tough-talk-to-member-countries

Jan 27, 2019 · WASHINGTON – The head of NATO on Sunday praised President Trump for demanding member countries pony up more money, saying Trump’s tough talk has produced “real results.” “President Trump ...


CIA director Brennan admits ISIS was “decimated” under Bush, but ...
www.aei.org/.../brennan-admits-isis-was-decimated-under-bush-but-has-grown-under-...

Nov 17, 2015 - by the CIA's own estimate, ISIS has grown on President Obama's watch from just 700 fighters to between 20000 and 31500 fighters. ... Admission: The Islamic State was “decimated” under George W. Bush and had just “700-or-so adherents left” following the surge in Iraq. Said Brennan: [ISIS] was, you know

 

Must you always destroy these ridiculous threads so quickl? Maybe wait a day or two. Poor sandy
...

 

Trump withdrew from the Paris Accords because it put America at a big disadvantage in trade against China and India, both who signed the Accords, but are exempt from their rules till 2030.Meanwhile while China goes more solar, they are building hundreds of coal plants around the world. Just because we withdrew, America is still fighting pollution and global warming. We are still building solar, wind, water and nuclear generators. Many homes are adding solar and wind generators. All our major manufactures are putting out some models that are electric. GM is going to build every car and truck electric, doing away with the combustion engine. Just a few months ago, we test flew our first electric airplane. Arizona just closed a coal generating plant.

1. China Building Hundreds Of Coal-Fired Power Plants Abroad ...
   https://nzenews.com/2019/04/29/china-building-hundreds-of-coal-fired-power-plants...
   Edward Cunningham, a specialist on China and its energy markets at Harvard University, tells NPR that China is building or planning more than 300 coal plants in places as widely spread as Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Egypt and the Philippines
   

 

Europe can sit on a tack.

 

Sandy believes he is soooo smart and no one knows as much as he does. Someone has to bring him back to reality sometimes.

 

Why would anyone accept your leadership?The world observed you for the past 3-4 years and no one is impressed with dishonesty, lies, 24/7 propaganda presented as the news, security services out of control spying on their own citizens, unelected officials breaking all sorts of laws at will, constant leaking of supposedly top secret information, eavesdropping on foreign leaders etc....Of course no one trusts the USA, and that is not because of Trump. The orange man kept more promises than any other president before.

 

I wouldn't be to sure of that. Even if they do in Congress, just because they have the majority, it will never pass in the Senate

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/does-this-sound-insane-to-you.564058/

 

Would that be the alliance with Israel and Saudi Arabia? Because those would really be the only "friends" we would have left.

 

And they should have concerns and they should allay those concerns by being more responsible for thier own defense or more willing to tilt policies towards America for thier financing of thier defense.

 

Lets look at this Turkey Kurd problem and it is a problem The two have been fighting for decades. Many Kurds have been killed in that fighting and between Turkey and ISIS, two -three million Syrians have fled to Turkey. That has caused a financial drain on the Turkish economy. Trump promised he would withdraw our troops out of there if elected and he was fore filling another promise he made. Turkey has said when America moves out, they will drive the Kurds out and return the millions of Syrian back to their homeland. A save zone was established twenty miles out and Turkey said that is as far as they want the Kurds from their border. Trump knew we can't stay there forever and he didn't try and stop Turkey from driving them out. How could he really? Turkey is a NATO partner. Are we going to start a war with them. But he warned Turkey he would back off, unless he saw the Turks were trying to wipe the Kurds out and if they tried that Trump would bankrupt Turkey. As it happened the Turks became to brutal and Trump sent the VP to warn Turkey and try and make a truce where the Kurds would withdraw 20 miles passed the save zone. A truce was made with only about three days of heavy fighting. If it hold and the Kurds continue to withdraw, The Kurds will be away from the Turkish border, where for decades of fighting has been going on. Millions of Syrians can return to their homeland and much if not all of the fighting will be over. At least as over as fighting can get in the Middle East. As for giving Russia Syria. We didn't do that. That was done by Obama when he decided to take out Assad, Russia and Iran's biggest Allie in the Middle East. What made Obama and Hillary think they would stand back and do nothing to stop us from doing that? I think Trump did an excellent job to bring about an almost impossible situation and it only took but a few day to do it.

 

Democrats love giving money away.