Trump says US will ‘destroy’ Iranian gunboats that harass American ships

Iran recently announced it has completed building thousands more of these speedboats (30,000), but the National Interest has put the number 'over 1,500'. Incidentally, watch the video I posted on Iran's 'counter-attack' in my last message. It will show you more clearly the forces at play in the dynamic you have in mind.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/irans-strange-navy-small-fast-boats-no-joke-82996

 

If they are highly trained and professionally-coordinated those boats could make minced pork haram out of the U.S. fleet. I wonder how they perform in rough seas?

 

While you may not follow the description (which is in Farsi), these videos shows the basic design, capabilities, and armaments on Iran's Seraj-1 as well as Zolfaghar speedboats. Including their ability to ride the rough seas.

 

I am not sure about western leaders but western populations insist on making the incurable error of equating Iran with Arab nations. Iran is a highly motivated nation with a culture and initiative well above that of its neighbours in the Middle East. One should not underestimate Iran, its determination, or the intelligence of its people.

 

I watched the propaganda video. It doesn't show much of anything all that "clearly", and it didn't reveal anything new or surprising to me. I'm aware that Iran has capabilities beyond their speedboats, and roughly aware of what those capabilities are. I'm deeply skeptical of the claim of 30,000, and you didn't provide a source for it. 1,500 sounds more realistic, but I'd be curious where the National Interest got even that number from.

Wikipedia says "The IISS estimates the IRGC Naval Forces are 20,000 strong including 5,000 Marines in one brigade of three or four Marine Battalions.,[43] and are equipped with some coastal defence weapons (some HY-2/CSS-C-3 Seersucker SSM batteries and some artillery batteries) and 50 patrol boats. The IRGC air arm, says the IISS, controls Iran's strategic missile force and has an estimated one brigade of Shahab-1/2 with 12–18 launchers, and a Shahab-3 unit. The IISS says of the Shahab-3 unit 'estimated 1 battalion with estimated 6 single launchers each with estimated 4 Shahab-3 strategic IRBM.'"

You don't really think it's realistic that they have 3 boats for every 2 personnel in the whole organization, do you?

 

It looks like it's incorporated a catamaran configuration. I guess that makes it more seaworthy in rough water? Too bad the video it isn't subtitled.

 

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/bladerunner.htm has a pretty good write-up on the hull design.

 

I am glad you watched, but disappointed you didn't find it helpful. The video is mainly footage from drills that are conducted. If you watched carefully, you would know what Iran is training its troops to do in case of war, including in terms of attacks on US naval forces. Otherwise, what happens when actual shooting starts, is anyone's guess.

I am not focused on the actual number, as whatever the number, not all can be used at once anyway. The drills Iran conducts basically tell you what it is practicing. And it is very unlikely that Iran would do anything that it hasn't practiced first, especially in the early stages of any conflict.

First, I want to clarify that the IRGC (while the ones operating most of these speedboats), isn't the regular Iranian navy. Just want to be clear on that, especially since the latest warning to the US regarding the naval incidents at issue was issued by Iran's regular armed forces and not just the revolutionary guards. See HERE.

As for the IRGC navy, and IRGC more generally, they have an active force which is much smaller than their reserve force. In case of war, the IRGC will want to call on its reserves (including the Basij forces) and I don't think they want them to be unarmed.

 

Thank you. It is an excellent article. It looks like those boats could be a real game-changer and make naval military ships (far from home in hostile waters) nearly useless in a toe-to-toe battle.

 

Okay, so a "swarm" might be 50-60 fast attack craft armed mostly with DShKs and unguided rockets. I don't like their odds against a CSG's compliment of MH-60s, even after they made an impressive showing of shooting up a barge last year.

Yes, I'm aware, thanks.

So you think 30,000 is a realistic figure? Where do you think they might be storing these 30,000 speedboats?

 

I can't tell for sure. This is sarcasm, right?

 

Just a fanciful thought > > >
If the U.S. were to be so foolish as to engage Iran in the Persian Gulf ... and end up getting their buttocks shot off, I can think the Americans will cease their boasting and claim it was Israel's fault "for providing inaccurate intel".

 

Wrong. You're a big man, right? You can take care of yourself when the chips are down, yes? I bet you can't prove it when you find yourself in the middle of a swarm of angry wasps. We can never cover our heads adequately or run fast enough.

 

Unguided? They are armed with anti-ship missiles and torpedoes and more.



The "Nasr-1" anti-ship cruise missile looks like this:


And you can read about it HERE.

As for the HOOT torpedo, here is a video about it:

HERE is FAS (Federation of American Scientists) evaluating the torpedo and, inevitably, trying to link it to a foreign design.

 

I don't think the speed boats or missiles are important. What I consider important is Iran's electronics because they can mess up our navy 1-2-3.

 

It's a bad analogy. Aircraft carriers, and their escorts, have weapons capable of destroying fast attack craft. They've got Hellfire-armed MH-60s. They've got Phalanx CIWS, Sea Sparrow and RIM-116 missiles. The DDG's have 5" deck guns. The Navy is on the cusp of beginning to install directed-energy systems designed to handle drones and small surface boats.

 

Those "little", "puny" boats are very important, Jeannette. Much more important than many people realize. But, of course, they aren't the only thing in Iran's bag of tricks.

 

The US navy has been working on the issue, but no real answers yet. Just a bunch propaganda.

These speedboats can't be distinguished easily from normal fishing vessels. Once they are close enough to be identified, they are already close enough to shoot their missiles and torpedoes. While those missiles and torpedoes aren't going to do much damage to an aircraft carrier, the frigates and other escort ships for the carrier, will be toast. And then these speedboats can then leave quickly. At fast speeds.

 

Will Iran shut up with all their blustering and just do it then?

I look forward to it, we can finally sink everything you have and shut up terrorists on forums like this that try to claim speed boats are the future of naval warfare.

 

Yes, SOME of them may have torpedoes and anti-ship missiles. MOST of them appear to be equipped with 11-tube unguided rocket pods above the bridge. That's why I used the word "mostly" in my post.

For example, in the video you asked me to watch:

I see a whole line-up of fast attack craft at 0:45 (and again at 0:56 ), and I can't see a single one equipped with Nasir-1s. You get a really clear view of the unguided rocket launcher at 2:06. No Nasir-1's there either. Is it possible Iran has a few Zolfaghar's armed with missiles and torpedos? Yeah, I suppose, but most of their "swarm" appears to be Seraj-1's, armed with unguided rockets.

 

The U.S. (despite its heavy weaponry) never wins against a swarm. Vietnam, Somalia, Beirut, they all kicked the U.S. out with small arms and a determined swarm.

Do you ever wonder why Russian MMA fighters are the best? In addition to their strength, they are fearless and determined. Pain doesn't worry or bother them. They can take it and continue fighting.

Saddam Hussein's pep-talk to his Army, leading up to the illegal American invasion of Irak was, "Keep your head down during the aerial assault and don't worry. Once the Americans send in the foot soldiers we will decimate them because face-to-face they are cowards". Saddam was right about the Americans but he seriously over-estimated the determination of his own men. In the confrontation, the Americans were less cowardly than the Iraqis ... by far.

Now, I don't say that the Iranians are as tough as the Russians but they too will fight on in the face of danger. They'll get in close with those boats and scare the bejesus out of the Americans who are only prepared to fight at a great distance from Iran's shore-line. Washington talks big - and always has done - but if they get tied up with those Iranian gun/missile boats we're going to see some serious "high-tailing" reminiscent of Vietnam, Somalia and Beirut.

 

I don't think Iran is going to be firing off a 'swarm' of missiles and torpedoes in a drill. The drill is focused mostly on the swarming tactics being practiced by Iran using rockets, once missiles, torpedoes and aircraft have delivered their more guided munitions. Some of those missiles will be from onshore, some from naval vessels, some from speedboats. And the same for the torpedoes: some will be fired off submarines, others by naval vessels including the Zolfaghar and other speedboats. Once those missiles and torpedoes have hit their targets, the 'swarm' is basically to overwhelm these ships and, in fact, capture and board the ones not sunk.

 

How does the U.S. government have its hands on Iraq's oil fields?

 

Sounds like we agree that the unguided rockets and DShKs on the Seraj-1 fast attack craft are not going to be effective against USN warships then, right?

 

First, that is simply not how it is going to unfold against Iran. The way it will unfold is what I mentioned: before the 'swarm' tries to approach and take out these naval vessels, they will have already been on the receiving end of missiles, torpedoes and more (including, but not limited to, from fast attack boats). The swarm then goes for the kill and capture, with the US vessels already not in any shape to mount much of a fight and finding themselves overwhelmed.

Second, long before Iran had developed practically ANY of these systems, missiles, vessels and drones, the US navy had the 2002 Millennium war games. Those war games showed that even without what I mention, a swarm of fast attack boats can still do a lot of damage. 18 US naval warships were sunk in that exercise before the US navy called off the exercise.