14 students killed, 1 teacher dead in elementary school shooting

I don't see how it would help. How would the death penalty deter somebody who is willing to kill themselves? More generally, the death penalty isn't a deterrent. People willing to commit capital crimes either don't intend to get caught or don't care about consequences, since life in prison is already a huge cost. Deterrence operates more on perceived likelihood of getting caught when the penalties are already unacceptably significant, but some people cannot be deterred such as this disturbed individual. In terms of incapacitation, life in prison accomplishes that at least in terms of victimizing innocent people, and it ends up being cheaper because of the necessary legal process to avoid executing innocent people.

 

" Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according
to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns,
ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.
The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity." The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts. While many guns are taken off the street when people are arrested and any firearms in their possession are confiscated, a new study shows how easily arrestees believe they could illegally acquire another firearm. Supported by the National Institute of Justice and based on interviews with those recently arrested, the study acknowledges gun theft is common, with 13 percent of all arrestees interviewed admitting that they had stolen a gun. However a key finding is that "the illegal market is the most likely source" for these people to obtain a gun. "In fact, more than half the arrestees say it is easy to obtain guns illegally," the report states. Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it.
ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking. Cracking down on these dealers continues to be a priority for the ATF. What's needed, according to Wachtel, is better monitoring of the activities of legally licensed gun dealers. This means examining FFL paperwork to see where their guns are coming from, and making sure that those guns are being sold legally. But he says, "Let's be honest. If someone wants a gun, it's obvious the person will not have difficulty buying a gun, either legally or through the extensive United States black market." "

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

 

I already know that.

We need more gun restrictions, not less, since we can't force people to NOT be greedy, selfish, evil jerks

But it won't pass because of people refusing ANY kind of gun restrictions.

And the mass killings will only get more frequent and worse over time.

You okay with that?

 

I agree with all of your post except to point out that all of the mass shooters in recent history that I can think of, other than this one, (and I don't know about him), came from intact families. The Buffalo shooter, for example.

 

I dont know if Ref Flags would have stopped this particular one, I just mentioned that red flags were taken off the table in TX. However the "hardening" measures would have stopped it, but apparently nothing was done about it since people can walk in with rifles. Nothing is going to get done this time either. They'll talk about it until the smoke clears, and then its back to regular programming.

As for armed guards, that's not just urban hell holes. Many schools have them. Stoneman Douglas had them in Florida, and that school is on affluent suburb.

Looks like high schools have more armed guards than other schools.

Facts About Armed Guards in Schools Statistics
https://getsafeandsound.com/2021/10/facts-about-armed-guards-in-schools/

What percentage of high schools have security guards who routinely carry a firearm?
Based on the statistics for the year 2009-10, 50.1% of the high schools reported having at least one or more armed officers routinely carrying a firearm. However, the statistics show a decrease in the percentage of armed officers carrying a firearm than a year before. In the year 2007-08, 54.9% of the high schools reported having armed officers routinely carrying a firearm. The percentage figure was 51.8% for 2005 to 2006.

 

The DEMOCRATS have total control of the House, Senate and White House.

What is the excuse for not acting?

Could it be that the political fallout for actually doing something would end up resulting in the loss a political rallying issue?

Just like with their inability to pay off student loans in spite of having total control.

 

Yeah? I dare you to go to the UK and post a video of your dog "being Hitler". See how you end up in jailed and/or fined. Also try carrying around a buck knife just for the heck of it. Oh right, you can't unless a court decides if you have a good enough reason to. LINK: Knife Age Restrictions and Law (buck-store.co.uk) <--- a fine example of why laws targeting inanimate objects are useless.

 

.

There is no shortage of firearms qualified people in this country who would be willing to volunteer their time to provide security for children and teachers.

States and politicians who are not focusing on replacing the education boondoggle just don't get it.

Young women are very capable of learning to use firearms. It should be a requirement for anyone teaching in a school that does not provide adequate armed security.

 

Start by showing me that it's worth talking to you.

 

Why would anyone support unnecessary and ineffective restrictions on the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by the law abiding?

You hope.

Freedom is dangerous.

 

Nonsense! An adult knows how to get away from danger better than a child. The best scenario for more people to survive is the one in which NOBODY has a gun.

 

And thus, your admission that you cannot demonstrate the necessary relationship between the gun laws in those countries and their lower rates of gun-related violence.
Thank you.

 

We'll see in a few weeks.

 

So your assumption is that this guy would still be able to got out to a store and buy a gun when he turned 18 if guns were outlawed.

I mean... by God! He even waited until his 18th birthday.

I don't see much logic in that.

 

And you fail to demonstrate that arguing with you is worthwhile.

So, a return to the ignore list is in order.

Thank you.

 

Criminals will always be able to obtain guns regardless of any law.
Can you figure out what they can do that?

 

Mass shootings are not committed by criminals.
They are troubled, lonely people, often wrongly or rightly bullied... but they get their guns legally.

Guns that can massacre 19 children in less than 2 minutes.

 

Go for it!
What could go wrong?

 

Social media companies are trying to poop into 2 toilets with 1 anus. They want some government protections while displaying open political bias. I, personally, think these social media companies should be subjected to libel laws and be forced to pay for damages if their platforms are used to damage somebody’s reputation and leave them without income to provide for themselves. If they want to enjoy the government protections, then they must be politically neutral. Addressing this issue alone would significantly reduce cancel culture.

I develop software for financial systems for a living. I have meetings every day. During those meetings I talk about things relevant to my work - reports, coding, pivoting implications, abilities to use APIs for some scenarios, etc. During those meetings I don’t talk about Trump, Biden, Pootin, Zelensky, homosexuals, CRT, etc. if I did, I’d be, rightfully, fired. And by firing me, my employer would not be violating my free speech right.
A teachers job is to teach a subject on which they should have relevant expertise. A math teacher should talk about math during the class time. A sociology teacher should talk about sociology. A political science teacher should talk about political science. If a kid has something personal and serious to talk about they can either, talk to a psychologist in school or talk to their parents. A teacher is not in a position to give a child any advice that goes against that child’s parent’s wishes. This has nothing to do with free speech. Some overly politically active teachers should learn to stick to their direct job duties for which they are paid by the local taxpayers. If one of my kids at some point thinks they are a homosexual then I prefer to be the first person to have a serious discussion about it. That’s my right as a parent, especially if you realize that as a parent, I know a whole lot more about my kids and their personalities than any teacher in my local school.

I moved to the U.S. more than 20 years ago and back then democrats were vocally opposing giving corporations too much power. They used to point at Walmart and their lobbying of local politicians to open news stores which resulted in many mom and pop stores going out of business.
It took democrats just 20 years to take on a directly opposite position and encourage a global corporation to meddle into some state’s political processes and discussions.
I used to be a democrat too. My views didn’t change - Democrats changed. That’s why I’m a republican now. Republicans are the party of the little guy now and democrats are the party of political extremism and racism.

In Russia you can get a 15 year prison term for posting a message on social media that criticizes an arm of Russian government. Sorry, but Florida offers freedoms, not restrictions, fines, or prison sentences.

 

Chicago homicides in 2022: 218 people have been slain. Here’s how that compares with previous years.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...0220426-iedehzuq5jdofbhwt3v2w6cjoy-story.html

Where's the F'ing Democratic OUTRAGE! about these Homicides in the Liberal Paradise of Chicago, most of them by GUNS! and they haven't done a thing about it for decades.

 

Its degree murder is still a crime. Look it up.

The Inconvenient Truth: The only thing that can stop a criminal with a gun is a someone with a gun that wants to stop them.

 

How many massacres were there in the 25 years before and since the confiscation?

I'll save you the trouble: 22 between 1971 and 1996. 36 between 1997 and 2021.

Explain how that is better.

 

They are being regulated as utilities. The Supreme Court has not yet ruled on whether this is allowable. No private entity is being prevented from speaking in this bill.

The Supreme Court has regulated what can be done on Twitter on a national scale.

Utilities have always been regulated to make sure that freedom of speech is allowed. Do you think it's allowable for a publicly traded company to turn off my internet because you don't like what I have to say? Your position infringes on freedom of speech.

Teachers have never been allowed to say whatever they want. Using you logic, it's perfectly fine for a teacher to say that pedophilia is ok and teach with examples in class. No. If a state doesn't want something taught by teachers, then that is their prerogative and places no limitation on freedom of speech.

I know leftists are racist bigots who want to force minorities to agree that they are oppressed based on gender and skin color and take training to cement that belief in their psyche, but I believe that discriminatory behavior such as this should not be forced on others. Would you be ok with Disney forcing everyone to convert to Pentecostalism as part of their work training?

Putin places restrictions on individuals in their private lives. Florida does not.

Putin doesn't even come close to being as bad as Winnie the Pooh.

 

Tell that to Florida teachers and librarians, not to mention Disney and various social media companies.

 

Of course. Even sane people commit horrible crimes. There is a difference between someone who is coo coo for coco puffs and someone likely to harm themselves or others. Warning signs are often ignored or medicated with products that list "suicidal thoughts or actions" as side effects. If a pharma product can produce thoughts that diminishes ones perceived value of life, should we still sell guns to those taking these meds?

As a collector with a room full of guns, I can tell you with certainty that guns do not produce such thoughts.