Egypt to deny Jews religious rights

Um yes, Im sure you were indeed born in Israel. Your forefathers mostly werent though. They were mostly from elsewhere. Why even bother denying that?

But anyway,

Do you think, like I do, that you Freeman as a native, have a moral right to decide what happens to israel as part of the majority verdict in Israel?

For example, I respect your right to vote on your own affairs, and to have the right to reject the invasion and immigration onto your land of anyone who wants to set up or 'redeem' a state of their own there.

Do you feel the same or does it depend on your being a native so much as you being a jewish person or not?

For me, I only have a problem with those israelis who have ever wanted to take more land than they currently had. Just like I have the same problem with such people anywhere else.

 

Jews have no rights in any of the Arab countries. What else ISNT new?

 

If youre going to pipe in, cant you just pipe in with something remotely accurate?

Theres no need to embarass yourself here, it makes Americans sound silly that they cant even offer a credible statement of fact.

 

You go round and round, but I will try to answer.
I think that Israelis should decide on Israel rules and on Israel fate.
That includes all Israelis, no matter religion color gender or affiliation.
I further believe that minority has to be protected from the tyranny of the majority.
As for your question about land, I have no interest nor desire that Israel will expand beyond its current borders. Nor does more of my countryman.
Unlike many who live today, including most of the Israel bashers here, we've witnessed war. We've looked into the heart of it and know the dire cost of it.
There is not a single person (unless he's a psychopath) who have lived through it and came out the same.
There is' however a dispute with the Palestinians on the actual borders and if there will even be any. This cannot be ignored and I do not avade it.
This dispute has cause both sides great harm over the years and will cause more until it is resolved.

 

The "jews" like to say there never was a Palestine.

 

"Thanks to the terrible power of our International Banks, we have forced the Christians into wars without number. Wars have a special value for Jews, since Christians massacre each other and make more room for us Jews. Wars are the Jews' Harvest: The Jew banks grow fat on Christian wars. Over 100-million Christians have been swept off the face of the earth by wars, and the end is not yet." (Rabbi Reichorn, speaking at the funeral of Grand Rabbi Simeon Ben-Iudah, 1869, Henry Ford also noted that: 'It was a Jew who said, 'Wars are the Jews' harvest'; but no harvest is so rich as civil wars.' The fact is that the Jews were known only as destroyers in ancient history, not creators. They have developed no science, have produced no art, have built no great cities, and alone have no talent for the finer things of civilized life. The Jews claim to be the torchbearers of civilization, but thorough their parasitic habits have deteriorated or destroyed every nation in which they have existed in large numbers." (Charles A. Weisman, Who is Esau-Edom?, p. 2.

 

This is Jew-hostile holocaust misuse and abuse which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

The Jews are not one person and not all Jews share the same opinion. There are plenty of Jews who do not subscribe to Zionist racism.

 

Fascinating. I didnt know I was going round and round but hey.

Lets get into it. Say for example, that one day a nasty disease hit the IDF such that it had no way of effective conventional defence against an armoured battegroup for about a year.

Would that give anyone from outside the moral right to move and set up their own state wherever they could?

If so, I can see where the original moral of zionism draws its argument from, if not I cant.

Am I being unreasonable?

The thing is, what youve said there is simply not true.

Most Israelis want to keep the Golan Heights,they want to keep all of Jerusalem and they want large swathes of the west bank without any reciprocal land swaps. Plus they want to control all gazan air and sea space and deny gazans the right to self defence.

If you think Im lying then why has Israel completely refused the Saudi Peace Proposal some years back? Was it really so bad?

 

We don’t need to be hypothetical about it, we've seen what happen to Jews when they have no defense against armed groups.
They were rounded up and sent to be murdered in concentration camps.
The day Israel will not be able to defend itself, will be the day of another holocaust. Pure and simple.

I, as an Israeli think differently. Just look at the recent history. It took Saadat only to say the words "no more war, no more bloodshed" and Israel handed him Sinai for peace. Sinai's area is 3 times the size of the rest of Israel. Had there been a sincere peace offer, the land would not have been an issue. A solution would be found.

 

True. And where is the outrage? I would bet if Israel blocked all access to the Temple Mound (the dome of the rock to Muslims), there would be gnashing of teeth and the call for the destruction of Israel! Its time for the ridiculous double standard to be eliminated!

Rev A

 

That was a sarcastic comment (By Ashen Lady) genius why don't you keep up with the discussion?

Rev A

 

And the villagers calling for the tomb to be opened and DNA taken believe this do they?

 

Stormfront rant? I am embarrassed as a Christian minister that you call yourself a Christian.

Rev A

 

The Sinai holds no special and strategical importance with regards to other lands occupied by Israel (for example, the Golan Heights). Indeed, it is no surprise that Israel did not accept a total withdrawal from the Golan Heights in exchange for peace, as requested by Hafiz Al Assad.

 

The chosen DNA is spiritual, not physical. However I would not be surprised if a physical DNA link would be found to trace modern Jewish people back to Isaac's divine bloodline, and therefore to the Nation of Israel whos national bloodline goes back to the creation of the earth, ie Gods chosen nation and Gods chosen people.

Rev A


NEVER AGAIN

 

Yes that (a total pullback) would of been a military disaster with terminal (to Israel) consequences.

Rev A

 

Irrelevant. With regards to international law, Israel is occupying the Golan Heights; thus, Israel is in violation of international law. According to UN resolution 242, Israel must withdraw from the occupied territories.

 

Do what? That doesn't pass for scholarship.. All the wives 0f Judah were Canaanites.

 

No Goomb the invalid corrupt international law that concerns Israel is irrelevant and impotent. Israel and its allies are (militarily) virile relevant and powerful via the force of arms, tradition, history etc.

You and those of you that think Israel is not going anywhere, especially without a negotiated settlement! Have you guys learned nothing from all the discussion and debating that you have been exposed to here at PF?

Lesson one ; the opinions, judgments, decrees and suggestions held down by the international court is the same as you or I getting a judgment from civil court (as opposed to criminal court). They mean relatively nothing. Especially if the person being charged is as*hole buddies with the DA. So what if Israel is condemned in some of its actions (and supported in others) by the international court? The DA ie the USA supports Israel. The USA is saying Israel is correct the court is wrong and Israel can violate the courts ruling while thumbing its nose at the court if it wants to! Is it right? No comment. Is it Just? No comment. I do know that its the way business is done.

Lesson two; So called World opinion means FAR less than the international court so who the freak cares about world opinion? Israel doesn't the USA doesn't and I sure don't, because the world is stupid, its so PC to make a man with a real set want to throw up. I would be ashamed if the USA threw Israel to the dogs, to the point that I would renounce my citizenship. I am already selling off my modest properties in the hopes of going to Israel anyway, if my own country turns traitor to Israel it will only speed up the process of the USA going down.

Lesson three; The only REAL power is military power! We think that our civilized world is beyond what the Romans the Egyptians and the Sumerians knew, that strength meant reality. If the Palestinians had the power ie if the were the USA of today or Germany of early WW2 they would take Israel away from the Jews by force and rename it Palestine. The trouble is that they are so weak militarily that the ONLY option they have is the world court, and we already know they are have no real power either.

So those are the lessons. It's meaningless to call on the international courts rulings etc because they are voluntarily complied with (or not).

Rev A

NEVER AGAIN

 

Source. and relevance thereof? Women were rarely considered worthy of mention at least in the capacity of genealogy. I don't know where you are going with that. If wife marries in bibical days she becomes what the husband was.

Rev A

 

See Origins of the tribe of Judah.

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/226698-conquering-canaan.html

The Israelites produced their children with the Canaanites, The tribe of Simeon and the tribe of Judah came out of the wombs of Canaanites and of course the Israelites married the Canaanites through out the bible

GENESIS 28:8 And Esau seeing that the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father; Esau married Canaanites, his clan was called Edomites and of course the Israelites married the Edomites.

GENESIS 36:2 Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;

JUDAH'S WIFE WAS A CANAANITE

GENESIS 38:2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in to her. 38:12 And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife died

 

I'm afraid your discontent towards international law is irrelevant. Israel (according to international law) must withdraw from the land it is illegally occupying.

 

delete dual post

 

You missed the important one and the crux of the issue, Issac. You say you are a christian but do not know that the wife of Issac was Rebecca ? Issac and Rebecca (A NON CANAANITE) fathered the Jewish nation came all the You do not know the story of Genesis where a servant was sent to find a non Canaanite wife for Issac (the father of the Jewish people?). The scripture you cherry picked was after the fact and taken out of context.

Here is an easy to read in context version of the events;

Isaac Meets Rebekah

(This story is found in Gen. 24.)

It was the custom in Abraham’s day for parents to choose wives or husbands for their children. Abraham wanted to find a good wife for his son Isaac. This would be difficult. Abraham lived in Canaan and did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman because the Canaanites worshipped false gods. Abraham wanted Isaac to marry a righteous woman who would help him remain faithful to the living God and who would teach their children the truth. Only in this way could the priesthood remain with Abraham’s descendants. Without the Priesthood they could not receive the special blessings the Lord had promised them.

Abraham called his oldest servant to him and asked him to search for a wife for Isaac. He said, “I want thee to swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that thou shalt not choose a wife for Isaac from the Canaanite women. But thou shalt go to my home country of Mesopotamia, and there among my own people thou shalt choose a wife for him.”

The trusted servant knew this was a very serious and important assignment and asked, “What if the woman chosen will not follow me back to this land? Should I not take Isaac with me, so the woman and her family can approve of him?”

Abraham answered, “Beware, do not take Isaac with thee.” Abraham did not want Isaac to go into another land, where he might be tempted to remain. The Lord had given the land of Canaan to Abraham and his family as an inheritance, and Abraham wanted them to stay there.

Abraham told his servant, “The Lord shall send his angel before thee, and he will help thee find a wife for Isaac.”

With that understanding, the servant gave his hand to Abraham and promised to do as he had been instructed.

The servant began his journey with a caravan of ten camels and a number of men to assist him. He traveled to Mesopotamia, to the city where Nahor lived. There he made his camels kneel outside the city beside a well of water. It was evening, and many women were getting water at the well. The servant did not know anyone. Nor did he know how to find the woman the Lord had chosen to be Isaac’s wife. He needed help, so he prayed, saying; “O Lord, behold, I stand here by the well of water; and the daughters of the men of the city come out to draw water. Let it come to pass that the young woman to whom I shall say, ‘Let down thy pitcher that I may drink’, and she shall say, ‘Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also’—let this be the woman that is to be Isaac’s wife.”

Before he had finished praying, a beautiful young woman approached. Her name was Rebekah, and she was not only beautiful, but also virtuous and lovely. She loved the Lord and tried to keep his commandments. Because of this, Rebekah was blessed by the Lord.

As Rebekah turned from the well with her water pitcher filled, the servant ran to meet her. “Let me drink a little water from thy pitcher,” he said.

“Drink my lord,” she replied. Then when she had given him a drink, she offered, “I will draw water for thy camels also.” This was the very sign the servant had prayed for, so he knew Rebekah was the woman the Lord had chosen to be Isaac’s wife.

After the camels had been given water to drink, the servant asked Rebekah, “Whose daughter art thou? Tell me, I pray thee, is there room in thy father’s house for us to lodge in?”

Her answer brought great joy to the servant. She told him she was the daughter of Bethuel and a granddaughter of Nahor. The servant knew that Nahor was Abraham’s brother and realized he had been led to the house of Abraham’s relatives. He bowed his head and thanked the Lord.

When Rebekah heard him praying, she learned that he was the servant of her great-uncle Abraham. Excitedly she ran home to tell her family. They, too, were excited. Rebekah’s brother, Laban, ran out to the servant, who was standing by the well. “Come in, thou blessed of the Lord,” Laban invited. “I have prepared the house and room for the camels.”

Later Laban asked the servant to eat, but the servant answered, “I will not eat until I tell thee why I am here.” Then the servant told the family why Abraham had sent him to Mesopotamia. He told them that he had been led by the Lord and that at the well he had prayed for a sign to help him know which woman should be Isaac’s wife. He then told them that their Rebekah was the one the Lord had chosen. The servant asked Rebekah’s father and brother for permission to take her far away to Canaan to be Isaac’s wife.

Rebekah’s family were good people. Their answer showed their great faith and trust in the Lord. They said, “This is of the Lord. Take her and go, and let her be Isaac’s wife, as the Lord has said.”

When Abraham’s servant heard this, he again bowed himself to the earth and thanked God. Then he brought out jewels of silver and gold and clothing and gave them to Rebekah. To Rebekah’s mother and brother he gave other precious gifts.

After these important arrangements were made, the servant relaxed. He ate his meal and spent the night with Rebekah’s family.

When morning came he said, “Send me back to my master.” Rebekah’s mother and brother dreaded seeing her leave so soon.

They pleaded, “Let her stay with us a few more days; after that she shall go.”

But the servant replied, “Do not hinder me. The Lord has helped me succeed. Send me away, that I may return to my master.”

“First ask Rebekah,” they said, and calling her they asked, “Wilt thou go with this man?”

Because of Rebekah’s great faith she knew the Lord would bless her. She answered, “I will go.” Rebekah was leaving the family she loved. She was going to a foreign land to marry a man she had never met, yet she knew it was the right thing to do.

Rebekah’s family knew of the great promises made to Abraham and his descendants. They knew that in marrying Isaac, Rebekah had a special mission to perform. She was to be the mother of many nations. When they bid Rebekah good-bye, they blessed her and said, “Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions.”

Then mounting the camels, Rebekah and her handmaidens followed the servant of Abraham.

Back in the land of Canaan, Isaac awaited the news. He knew the Lord would direct the servant to find the right woman to be his wife. One evening he went out into the field to pray. When he lifted up his eyes, he saw the caravan returning from Mesopotamia and ran to meet them.

As he approached, Rebekah saw him and asked the servant, “What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us?”

The servant answered, “It is Isaac.” Rebekah quickly covered her face with a veil * jumped from the camel to greet Isaac. She was excited, for she was about to meet the man God had chosen to be her husband.

Isaac and Rebekah had trusted in the Lord, and he had brought them together to be husband and wife.


References; http://lds.org/liahona/1985/10/isaac-meets-rebekah?lang=eng


Rev A