Why the need to prove God does or does not exist.

The only thing I "hate" is when men reject their FREE WILL granted to us men, BY GOD, and BLAME GOD for all evil on Earth. That is what I HATE with all of my fury and wrath. I hate irresponsible people who do not bear the burden of the cross, as CHRIST did before us. Only a MAN, the SON OF GOD, has the spiritual strength to carry the SIN of all others. This is the greatest burden.

What would somebody like YOU know about burden and responsibility??? Nothing!!!

 

They can be. However, I'm not attacking all beliefs, I attack beliefs that might be subjective, but which I'm quite comfortable in believing anyway. If someone tells me "Armageddon will happen if Obama is re-elected", I'm not attacking that because it's an obviously objective truth that Armageddon will not happen if Obama is re-elected, it's because the belief is unfounded, badly defined and kind of silly.

 

As a Christian I have no need to prove to others the existence of God. In fact, I don't believe any God who claims that salvation is to be by grace and grace alone can be demonstrable by means of human logic.

 

Of course you don't need to prove to others the existence of God. Unless, of course, you're bound by 1 Peter 3:15. Or if you let your belief in a god influence your political views, your decisions in everyday life or the way you treat others. Knowingly or unknowingly.

So you do accept that, apart from faith, there is no reason to believe in a god, and therefore, only the argument from faith needs to be refuted for your position to be completely baseless?

 

Your story is silly. People were "sinful" before Jesus and they were sinful when he was alive and they are still sinful. People will still end up in the lake of fire. So in reality Jesus didn't do squat to improve anything. If he had wanted to do something he could have taken everyone's plave in the lake of fire or eliminated "sin" forever. He did neither. If he's carrying the sins of all others why will you be condemned for your sins or have to ask forgiven for them?

 

Good point. I believe that God exists because of experiences I have had... but I realize that others may not see what I see as proof of anything. But then I am not like many secular and non secular people in our society, trying to make others see my view on God, or the lack there of. To me God is personal to the individual and should not be forced upon those who do not want it.

 

u got something else to do?

 

I think the Church has the right to police itself, but because of the separation of Church and State I do not think the Church has any authority outside the doors of the Church. I understand that Christians say that Christ is the authority not a Government... and that is a nice sentiment but it carries no actual weight in a free society.

Again this is an internal Church fight. If you feel your Church is being encroached by gays, then take it up with your Church leaders. But in a free society, people are free to make their own choices.

 

Society has no right to morality, saying who can marry and who cannot. Society has no right to push the legitimacy of "gay marriage", what a joke!!!

Society has no right to say that a sexual PERVERSION, sexual deviants, pedophiles, are anything except MENTALLY ILL! Society has no right to justify homosexuality as "equal" to heterosexuality. Society has no right to call PERVERTS "normal"!!!!!! Sick, disgusting, makes me wretch just thinking about liberals and atheists...........

 

the money god exists and we trust in him... it's written on our money... what more proof does one need?

 

I have no need to prove anything about any god's existence because I don't have a stance on the matter. And I don't expect people to live their lives based on my lack of stance on something's existence. When someone says "this is law because of my god," or "I'm going to stop you from doing something because of my god," then I expect some proof of that god's existence. Otherwise, that person is effectively saying "because I feel like it."

I pay attention to and participate in threads about the existence of god(s) because it's enjoyable.

 

Can we hold you to that?

 

What makes you "wretch" is of no concern to society. It is no influence on society. It is your own personal hell, not a universal truth.

You consistently conflate rights with righteousness. Rights are determined by society. They ultimately are an agreement among people. Righteousness is the goal of those who wish to be worthy in the eyes of their chosen deity, and what constitutes righteousness varies from one person to the next, even if you shout that it is unchanging and absolute. The reality is no two believers will be in agreement as to when they are in compliance with their god. Most will craft a vision of that compliance to miraculously dovetail with their own values. As Anne Lamott said, you can be pretty sure you've created God out of your own vision when it turns out He hates all the same people you do.

 

Yes you can

 

Nonono, wrong wrong wrong, Rights are granted to people BY GOD. Society does not grant or protect Human Rights. Only God does or can.

 

Good.
Goodbye then.

 

Rights are not consistent from society to society. They vary widely.
Read my post. You are trying to defend righteousness, not rights. Rights are a human construct that becomes a societal contract.

If God is in charge of protecting human rights, then he is certainly not all powerful, as he is doing a miserable job.

 

NO, Brucey Brucey Brucey.......... you disappoint me. Where were you educated??? What you call "rights" were first invented and put into practice by TRULY CHRISTIAN American revolutionaries and thinkers. They were inspired by CHRISTIAN tradition. Other societies do not have "rights". This is entirely an American idea.

Prove it, Brucey.

Tell me which men in particular, protect my rights. Are you saying that Obama tells you what your rights are, or are not?????

Are you saying that other men, prone to corruption and greed and power, OWN your rights???? They are responsible for your rights, and you are not????

 

Rights are a contract between men. Righteousness is a contract with god.
I was educated at Philips Exeter Academy and Harvard University, among other places. You?

 

Taken from 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins

The god of the old testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction.. Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vendictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

I think Dawkins knows his business.

 

This is what separates the founding of America and all other nations before or since. Our founders did not proclaim the inalienable rights (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness), they recognized the truth of those rights. They did not invent them or vote on them, they came to understand them through enlightened thought.

That explains your muddled concepts of American ideals. And you people wonder why few of us are impressed with Ivy League Degrees? GW Bush and Obama both have those, big (*)(*)(*)(*)ing deal. Can they or you even tie your own shoes?

 

Brucey Brucey Brucey...... come now.... my education is PEOPLE, LIFE, EXPERIENCE, COMMON SENSE. My education is GOD, a higher power than myself. I'm not conceited and selfish like you atheists. I recognize that life is limited, there is life and death. I recognize there are limits to what can be accomplished in a given amount of time. I recognize that GOD is the HIGHEST POWER of all.

Rights only exist because GOD has created them, and given them to mankind. Think of it as FREE WILL, God's greatest gift to man, the ability to CONTROL our destinies and take responsibility for ourselves. It is only through GOD that a Man can be free, by understanding the importance of free will.

What you call "human rights", were given to ALL MEN, EQUALLY, as an opportunity for every man alive, past and present, to take spiritual power and fate into his own hands. The American founders, the great men, thinkers, and revolutionaries knew and recognized that men in power corrupt things. Rights is not a contract between men. Rights is a contract men have with GOD.

Only through GOD and TRUE CHRISTIANITY, can anyone understand what you call Rights. Why are rights UNIVERSAL? Why are rights OBJECTIVE? Because GOD.

Because GOD.

 

Well believing your rights come from god or nature or whatever means precisely nothing in practice. Unless rights are recognized, respected and protected by other human beings they're not worth crap. And, btw, america is not the first country to recocognize individual rights and christianity didn't invent the concept either.

 

So, if a baby is killed by a madman with a gun, does the baby still have a right to life? If you are put into a cage due to being a political or war prisoner, do you still have the right to liberty?

It is meaningless to say that Gods are a contract between men and God if man, and not God, enforces and protects those rights.

 

You're absolutely wrong. Anglican Puritans invented the idea of Human Rights, by our deeper understanding of GOD and TRUE CHRISTIANITY. The American Revolutionaries, the great men who built the United States from scratch, used and applied these UNIVERSAL LAWS, inspired by God.

America is TRULY a Christian nation!