How has being a Christian made you a better person?

Some aspects of the Jesus story are ones a person can relate to, tho the horrible senseless death
and the supposed purpose of it just dont really work for me.

In China, we are taught values with no need to have a supernatural monster interposed as the
source of it and the punishment for any failure.

Still, perhaps in a weak culture if values are not taught at home, then wherever they come from, thats better than nothing.

 

as i said, i don't think its a necessity, but religion can help promote these values, that not a bad thing...
i dunno about the "weak culture" comment, do you think every country where most people are religious has a weak culture? that wud be virtually every country in the world...i can see how u think that religion is inherently bad for any culture, and i must admit that the answer to that is not a clear one, but i wudnt call these cultures weak..
also, in my understanding, the values i spoke of don't come from a supernatural monster (god), but from jesus and his teachings, i think one has to differentiate these two....i don't know if you are a buddhist and im no expert, but i wud guess his teachings are quite similar in the sense that they also promote values everyone shud subscribe to

 

While some small part of the Bible can be interpreted as presenting "values like tolerance, forgiveness, sharing etc." the OVERWHELMING majority of it is anything but. The fact is that the same Bible that can be read by someone like yourself in search of those values can just as easily (more easily I would say) be used by another person to justify shooting up a Unitarian church. Therefore I urge you to consider that it is something other than Christianity that is making the difference between one reaction and the other. That something other I would suggest is liberalism vs. conservatism. It has been my observation over 5 decades that all good comes from liberalism while all bad comes from conservatism. And there is medical evidence to show why that is.

 

If we have to keep going over and over the same material this conversation isn't going to get us ANYWHERE. Pay attention this time!

And quit using religious nuts as examples of atheists!

Pastor Wurmbrand's experience was not due to atheism. Atheism is nothing more than someone saying that there is no god. Anything more than that is not atheism. It is something else. In my case I argue with theists because only one generation before mine my family was hunted and some even murdered by Christians. As demonstrated above Christians have a very long history of that sort of thing. Ignorant Christians scare the Hell out of me. Its a victim speaking out. Not an atheist.

Nor was Pastor Wurmbrand's problem the result of communism. That is nothing more than an economic idea. They might take over his place of business in the name of a government. But it was AUTHORITARIANS who tortured him. They may well have been completely unable to tell him the difference between one economic system and another. Authoritarians torture people. Not economists. And authoritarians are ALWAYS conservatives. Regardless of what particular economic system they prefer. If any.

I googled "why people come to jesus" and went to the first link I found.

http://www.sermoncentral.com/sermon...s-lee-black-sermon-on-faith-general-51451.asp

Four of the 7 reasons given support my theory that they are emotionally broken.

"II. For Comfert. (sic) III. For Strenght. (sic) IV. For Peace. VI. For Rest."

Obviously they aren't there for spelling lessons! As for your comment about atheists having father issues there may be something to that as well. So according to that god is going to TORTURE ME FOREVER because my dad was a dick. Gee, there's a god I can't wait to worship! Where do I sign up? [Sarcasm alert for the incredibly stupid!]

 

People leave every profession every year for various reasons. Your link doesn't say the pastors became atheists. Many left because they were overworked. That's funny, I thought being a pastor was about a cushy job and money.

/Sarcasm off

 

Yes, he used to be an atheist. You started this thread and asked how people's lives have been changed by becoming Christians, yet ignored my list of exactly that. Why?

 

It isn't that I'm not paying attention, its that I reject your arguments.

Quit using atheists as an example of Christians. You had Jim Jones on your list. From Wikipedia:

"In 1951, Jones began attending Communist Party meetings and rallies in Indianapolis.[15] He became flustered with harassment he received during the McCarthy Hearings,[15] particularly regarding an event he attended with his mother focusing on Paul Robeson, after which she was harassed by the FBI in front of her co-workers for attending.[16] He also became frustrated with ostracism of open communists in the United States, especially during the trial of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.[17] This frustration, among other things, provoked a seminal moment for Jones in which he asked himself, "how can I demonstrate my Marxism? The thought was, infiltrate the church."

What teaching of Christ were they following? You don't judge a philosophy by its misuse. You are statistically far safer in a Christian nation than an atheist one.

Typical Marxist thinking, reduce everything to economics.

You mean his church?

His torturers specifically cited atheism as rationale for their actions. Were they lying?

I guess you're an expert now.

You're not going to hell because you or your dad are a dick, but because of your sins, the same reason I would go to hell were it not for my faith in Christ's atoning death on the cross.

 

the usual... Fear of God is WRONG

Who says?

In the Bible, which many of us know is the Word of God, we are told that Fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom

That is found in Proverbs and also somewhere in the New T

It means that we should fear Him being more powerful than we are, able to cast us into Hell if we are not... "worthy"


.

 

J

In response to #251, person in China



Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. We humans are not capable of enduring the wrath of God, incurred because of our sins. So God did for us what we could not do... He destroyed our sinfulness. The only problem is that WE have to do something also

We have to accept and be IN Christ.

We will still never be absolutely perfect, esp in this life where it seems you almost have to sin in order to just... But i don't want to finish that sentence because it will be misunderstood. What i mean is that one cannot avoid 24/7 every "little" sin, which statement, if you agree with it... and most Christians do... brings us to the issue of egregious sin and not so egregious, otherwise known as mortal sin and venial sin (by Catholics)

God knows better than we do that we cannot avoid ALL sin 24/7

But we CAN avoid mortal sin (fornication, adultery, impure acts w/ self, promoting abortion, procuring abortion..)

and He expects for us to do so

the conscience He puts in everyone tells them these things are terrible sins and to be avoided. But the Church confirms what our consicence tells us... and even informs us of things beyond all that...

Jesus said that the one who does not have HIM does not have the Father



.

 

I don't know how it could unless being angry is seen as "better". Whenever a chrsitian is asked a question , they reply with , "you must be angry", "you are filled with hate"....why are emotions like anger and hate ALWAYS in the forefront of their minds?
Do they wallow in it so much that they think everyone is like that?
Will they ever learn that anger and hate sap the energy and narrow the mind?

 

You have a problem addressing me more directly that "person in China"? Im not even there now anyway.

As for the rest of your post, i dont read mantra chanting. I've heard it all before and it does not improve with age any better than fish does.

 

Oh how open minded of you.....

 

MUCH more open minded than those who chant the same junk without any thinking whatsoever like:




""""Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. We humans are not capable of enduring the wrath of God, incurred because of our sins. So God did for us what we could not do... He destroyed our sinfulness. The only problem is that WE have to do something also

We have to accept and be IN Christ.

We will still never be absolutely perfect, esp in this life where it seems you almost have to sin in order to just... But i don't want to finish that sentence because it will be misunderstood. What i mean is that one cannot avoid 24/7 every "little" sin, which statement, if you agree with it... and most Christians do... brings us to the issue of egregious sin and not so egregious, otherwise known as mortal sin and venial sin (by Catholics)

God knows better than we do that we cannot avoid ALL sin 24/7

But we CAN avoid mortal sin (fornication, adultery, impure acts w/ self, promoting abortion, procuring abortion..)

and He expects for us to do so

the conscience He puts in everyone tells them these things are terrible sins and to be avoided. But the Church confirms what our consicence tells us... and even informs us of things beyond all that...

Jesus said that the one who does not have HIM does not have the Father""""""""""

 

I was going to say... I have become a better person by leaving that faith.. Far less intolerant and hateful, far more at peace with the world (not suffering from cognitive dissonance anymore)

 

But the very things you say you gained after leaving Christianity are Christian values. So you are simply saying you were not a good Christian, but after leaving the faith you finally began living, or have learned the teachings of Jesus and are now applying those teachings or similar teachings. Good for you!

reva

ps I would be happy to provide many examples Jesus teachings AGAINST intolerant and hateful actions and even thoughts, and advocated peace etc for the world and to be at peace with ones self.

 

you seem to have missed the point about these VERY HUMAN values being effectively universal, and common to almost all cultures. that your desert friends adopted them for their Big Book is neither here nor there. same stuff is in a thousand and one other works of fiction and/or religion.

the brand-loyal theist runs into problems when they insist on the uniqueness of their particular poison, and claim it the font of all wisdom. that sort of posturing will only wash in a village-scaled setting, sans technology and modern communications.

 

What's moral about praying?

 

some of 'em still abide in 1952, when faith was thought a virtue. it's possible some think prayer is, also.

hard to imagine how anyone with self-respect is okay with such unseemly obeisance to anything, let alone a despicable sky monster.