Activists Protest ‘Conversion Therapy’ Conference In San Diego

Therein lies the rub. If you can't prove they were homosexual to begin with you can't prove they were treated.

So treatments don't exist. They could be Liars, either about being homosexual in the first place or about being treated they could be lying to themselves to fit into some social group. They could simply be in denial.

You have to eliminate all of these possibilities to say that there is a viable treatment.

Otherwise it's just Faith healing or voodoo or magic spells.

 

see the post just above this one.

 

Why not demons or leprechauns?

 

If the individual regards themself as cured, you must accept it. For them, it may be enough to tackle unwanted urges as they arise, and redirect them - in the same way that recovering addicts often do. It may be even less .. it may simply be avoiding homosexual activity.

Our judgements are not relevant to their own determination of 'cured'.

 

There's an awful lot of territory between 'demons' and, environmental impact on psychological development.

 

Why?

that's aversion. Not treatment.

that doesn't make them not homosexual.

Our judgments aren't relevant two people who believe they are The Reincarnation of Adolf Hitler or Napoleon or whatever delusion they live under.

If you could just magically cure yourself there would be no hospitals there would be no therapists or any of that.

 

Precisely as much evidence to support the theory that it's demons or leprechauns is there is to support your environmental Theory.

Further it's very dishonest of you to poison the well. I did not say environment plays no role in psychological development I didn't even say it plays no role in homosexuality.

All I did was ask why not demons or leprechauns.

 

It's funny how you never answer questions asked to you.

Perhaps you avoid them because you know answering them would expose you for what I believed you to be. Meanwhile you're participating in dishonest antics such as poisoning the well.

I don't think you know the first thing about psychology. I think you completely made up things to try and support your argument. I think you're dishonest. And I'm starting to lose interest in speaking with you

 

Present evidence to support that claim

 

You say this frequently. I've come to expect it from you.

sigh

 

It's my 'theory'. Chew on that.

 

You're dishonest frequently I've come to expect it from you.

 

No it isn't your theory. It is a hypothesis. A hypothesis is either a suggested explanation for an observable phenomenon, or a reasoned prediction of a possible causal correlation among multiple phenomena.

You have only managed to reference casual correlation between multiple phenomena.

Theory on the other hand is substantiated buy proven fact.

You have proven nothing you have used no facts you have only ever mentioned casual correlation and I have doubts about that even being true.

So I'm being charitable or giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say it's a hypothesis.

 

It doesn't work, even according to Exodus International, one of the largest conversion "therapy" providers. They finally closed their doors after apologizing for all the pain and suffering they caused. Conversion therapy works no more than a fortune teller's prediction on a street corner. There are many cases of "ex-gay" survivors who were "cured" then a few years later end up in real therapy because of all the damage that was done. I attended a conference one time where one of the hour long panels was put on by people who survived Exodus.

 

Dishonest about what? I offer my genuine opinions.

 

You present them as credible theories.

Maybe you're not dishonest maybe you're just scientifically illiterate.

 

I explained why it doesn't work and her argument was if they believe it worked, it works. However if a patient believes sex reassignment surgery and hormone therapy works it doesn't in crank's world.

The bias in this discussion clouds all possibility for rational discussion.

 

You did say in one post that if a patient believes a treatment works then it works. However I find this a bit ironic because transgender people think their treatment works but according to you it's just supplementing a delusion.

You're incredibly inconsistent in your own logic. Magical pixie dust can't change a man into a woman but it somehow can change a homosexual into a heterosexual.

I simply suggest magical pixie dust is not medicine treatment therapy or anything.

 

Lol even after hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery?

For trans people it may be as simple as hormone therapy.

Except of course if they are transgender, then your judgements are relevant?

What a joke.

 

There's a fairly big difference, but I'm pretty sure you know that.

A transgender person is dealing in physical attributes.

A person who ceases a problematic (to them) behaviour, is a completely different kettle of fish.

 

They are entirely credible to large numbers of people (of various cultures). Because the west doesn't subscribe to them, you're not a fan. That's okay, I get it.

 

Irrelevant.

When a gambler ceases gambling, it doesn't mean he/she magically ceases to have the urge to gamble. On the contrary, they're likely to be visited by the urge for the remainder of life. BUT, they don't actually gamble .. therefore the significant negatives associated with the practice of gambling, are gone from their lives. For many addicts and people who engage in negative (to them) behaviours, that's more than enough.

 

so only for homosexuality someone who says they're cured must truly be regarded as such? What if they decided they're cured of cancer?

surgery treats that.

all one has to do to see say Behavior is simply stop that's not curing that's not treatment that's just not doing something.

Homosexuality in this context is the attraction to the same sex. If that's not cured it's not a cure.

 

who cares? They're not credible scientifically speaking.

no it's because there is nothing but if I take your word for it a casual correlation but I don't even take your word for it. You have presented nothing to suggest your claims on Asia than Japan then China and now Klingon is the slightest bit true.

You've dodged and maneuvered around like someone who's dishonest would do. And that's why I say it. It isn't trying to make you honest it's mockery.

 

How? I've repeated myself over and over again. This isn't western science, this is centuries old 'lived' experience. You're free to dismiss it with extreme prejudice, just as I'm free to subscribe to it.