China's economy grows 6.5% in Q4 as country rebounds from coronavirus

That was certainly unfortunate and I hope your recovery is going well.

The problem here is that the methods we have for attacking the spread of COVID are all oriented to reducing odds.

Even those who get the vaccine are able to spread COVID even if they no longer become symptomatic. Those vaccinated can still harbor some number of COVID viruses and can thus infect others.

That is what medical science has stated from the start.

None of the recommendations is a guaranteed solution for each individual who follows the guidelines.

 

Again this nonsense crops up!!!

Masks slow spread by reducing viruses that are carried on water droplets emitted when we breathe, talk, cough, sneeze, etc.

The size of the virus isn't even the issue. It's the size of the water droplets they take a ride on.

But, this has been made clear for MANY MONTHS - how come it's still not known?

 

So Trump was in charge of the economy, yet it was the dems who broke it ?

I wont debate with someone who has doesn’t deal in reality. have a nice day

 

And was there a mask involved there ?

 

Having a federal level plan along with the supplies needed to implement it would have meant that governors were not faced with the devestation they faced and without the resources to take alternative actions.

The plan for our economy as created by the CDC in conjunciton with other executive branch troups and revied by industry executives was posted for MANY MONTHS on whitehouse.gov.

Trump took NO ACTION to implement that plan, which called for testing and contact tracing as one significant element.

At that point, Trump stated that he would be putting NO EFFORT into EITHER testing OR contract tracing.

The result has been that states simply don't have the resources for doing that kind of activity at the level needed.

Also, states have been left to struggle with shortages of PPE, ventilators, hospital beds, and all manner of other materials that could have been supplied by an executive branch that has the power of the defense production act to ensure that such needs are met.

States do not have that kind of power. And, they have limited authority even just for borrowing money. And, it is an incredible waste for each state to have to create testing laboratories and other facilities that can be far more efficiently, rapidly, and cost effectively marshalled at the federal level.

So, the federal government totally failed. They couldn't have more solidly failed if that was their MISSION.

And, then you blame the governors!

 

In my state the governor really stretched for political expediency to do what the other kids were doing. His order could only be enforced by the health department since he did not go through the legislature and the health department basically said WTF we don't have the people to do this so we aren't enforcing it unless we happen upon it in our normal course of business. That made only a few types of businesses targets for enforcement.

Anyway, it was all done haphazardly and capriciously IMHO. There was no debate, no legislative input in most places, etc. Governors just started inventing crap to appear to be doing something. You point out that not all businesses are the same, but neither are all communities. There was no real reason to put my part of our state into "lockdown" because the stuff was spreading like fire through nursing homes in the couple most densely populated parts of the state early on.

I would rather things have been handled in a true data driven way with a much lighter hand based on case data, not political data. Anyway, the ship has sailed. It is spreading like wildfire now in my state; there is nothing that can be done to stop it; we will have to wait for herd immunity through vaccines or natural selection.

 

Yes I blame the governors. Trump cannot invent things out of thin air. The Obama ventilator stockpile ordered on his way out the door had not yet been built due to the manufacturer having to redesign them and get approval for them. Most of our PPE stockpile was exhausted by Ebola and MERS related assistance to other countries. The US did not have the capabilities for mass testing on a novel virus period and the CDC lab in Atlanta was incapable of processing tests for the entire country. Trump immediately tried to get a universal rapid test developed to bypass the logjam but it unfortunately failed as well. The laughable part of your position is that you are arguing that we still shouldn't have state level testing capacity when the biggest failure was that the federal laboratories were not more efficient, rapid, or cost effective.

 

I've already rebutted all of this countless times on this forum... You continue to deny immunology, virology, mathematics, and engineering specs.

 

I've already rebutted all of this numerous times... You continue to deny immunology, virology, mathematics, and engineering specs.

 

No, that would be the fault of COVID-19 and the CHINERS reluctance to give accurate information to the U.S. and the world of it's severity and means of spread..

Wow man, you just wake up from a really REALLY long nap? But you're smart to seek less informed audiences for sure!

 

I'm so sorry that you have a reading problem. Let me post it slowly for you.

 

Yes.
And why did people travel all over the world, DUH?
Could it be the CHINER and WHO didn't heed the Taiwan warning?

See this is the sort of thing that happens when folks let MSNBCNN do their thinking for them

 

Oh, You really want to 'go there' on Trump & the economy & expect anyone waking up in the morning rays to respect the assertion that you are peddling in... ? Really... at least throw in Iran - something nuclear & you might have some semblance of plausibility... What tripe! you can do better sabotage @Kode

 

Look, regardless of who was in charge when COVID hit the economy was always going to take a hit mostly because whoever that person was required the complete support of all 50 State Governments and the general population in order to have a chance of containing the virus and its flow-on effects on the economy.

Did Trump do a good job of handling the virus? - no. Does he own the outcomes of his decisions (or lack thereof) regarding COVID including the economic fallout? - yes.

Could a better President have done a better job in reducing both the death toll and the economic cost? - yes. Would the economy still have entered a downturn anyway? - also yes.

Make no mistake Trump deserves criticism for his failure to deal with COVID appropriately but there is plenty of blame to around at the Federal, State, Country and individual level for how this pandemic has panned out. It's too easy to say 'its all Trump's fault', but the facts say otherwise.

 

That, and they were able to cure Covid overnight.

Crazy their numbers of infections aren't rising yet they're locking down 21 million more people.

 

You say that Trump couldn't do anything, but your government SHOULD have been able to solve the problem!!

Trump didn't even try.

In fact, Trump CANCELED the preparedness planning that Obama had put in place. On two different ocassions Trump refused contracts for mask machines. The first, when he first entered office, was to refurbish a machine that was capable of one million masks per day. The second was another offer to refurbish such a machine that was made last January when the problem became noticed.

Again, Trump did nothing for testing, contact tracing, ventilators, etc. These were all things that the executive branch was in a far better position to address due to budget and defense authority.

When testing progress was slow and at the time the CDC pointed out how badly it was needed, Trump's response was to wash his hands of the problem, saying he would no longer do anything about it.

I think you forget that the federal level progress on testing was to supply states with state level testing capability. This issue has nothing to do with limiting testing to being a federal program. When Trump killed federal level contribution, it left MOST states with NOTHING as few states had the kind of lab facilities for creating or processing tests. So, those governors were left high and dry when the CDC plan for the most optimal approach to opening our economy depended on TESTING.

Obiously, not all governors have done a good job. But, the ROOT of the problem is that our federal government flat out failed on EVERY SINGLE LEVEL.

In fact, the federal Homeland Security was interdicting deliveries of foreign made PPE that hospitals had purchased at a time when those hospitals were overflowing with COVID patients and couldn't protect their healthcare workers.

 

Bull.

I directly countered a statement that you made that is WELL KNOW to be total BS.

Masks work by reducing emissions of droplets that carry viruses. To do that, they do NOT have to be so incredibly tight as to filter out individual viruses.

 

Again, this is total BS. We found out in early January - plenty early enough.

The problem is that we took no action - in fact, we had eliminated our whole preparedness program, leaving us with totally inadequate PPE and a president who did not take ANY of the necessary actions to defend America.

In the end, almost all the strains of COVID in America came from Europe - where we didn't even restrict travel until it was WAY too late. In fact, ALL our travel restrictions were pathetic.

 

Wait, you "forgot" to chastize him about thread creation guide lines....
Anyhow, China is no friend of ours but BFFs with Biden.

 

True.

I'd add, thought, that many of the loal failures were motivated by having a president who pitched COVID as totally fake, unimportant, ready to magically dissapear, etc. He pitched it as an assault on the people of the USA by Democrats - that it was patriotic to refuse all recommendations from our healthcare sciences.

He campaigned against the basic forms of defense - masks, distancing, hand washing, etc. He wrote executive orders telling meat packers and others that they didn't have to take ANY of the recommendations from OSHA or CDC - directly leading to large communities of infected citizens even when the remedial work to protect employees was inexpensive and easy. That led to a lawsuit against management who were taking BETS on how many of their own employees would get sick and die.

Blaming local government for not overcoming the direct assault by the president on our health care infrastructure is total CHICKENSHIT.

Even today, Trump has a significant percent of this nation refusing to take even the simplist of measures. We have federal congressmen refusing to wear masks. We have people assaulting airlines personell who require passengers to wear masks. Etc., etc. That's not because of local government - that is because of Trump.

And, now we find that money allocated to bail out the businesses we need went to those whose business it is to sell people on the idea that vaccinations don't work and are a government plot!!

So, yes - it is VERY easy to point to the ABSOLUTE CATASTROPHE of American deaths that came from a full year of Trump working to defeat the methods we have of protecting ourselves from pandemic.

 

They were not able to cure COVID.

Their attack on COVID used standard methods of social separation, masks, etc.

They were more sucessful, because they took it to absolute extremes. The had law on who could leave the home to got to the grocery store and the pass they had to carry when doing so. And, if more than one person went out, they could be arrested and jailed for months.

They locked down regions, preventing travel - while we allowed people to go on spring break, Mardi Gras, flights overseas, Thanksgiving, Christimas vacation, etc. We had NO internal travel restrictions, reductions etc.

Much of America refuses to even just wear a mask!

The depths of the ignorance of Americans in the face of pandemic is really awsome to behold.

 

dumping blame on States after the worst 'leadership' during national crisis ever will never be acceptable.
traitor trump is to blame for every wrong committed on this planet and everything wrong going on...
...cos elections have consequences which reach globally, and when you're a yuge turd you stink bigly.

 

You're getting yourself confused.

Remember that at that time Fox, Rushbo, Breitbart, Trump and the rest were calling this a plot engineered by Democrats in order to attack Trump.

NOW you wish that people listened to other sources instead!!

Or do you?

Are you still stuck in your bliefs of a year ago that this pandemic was a Democratic plot against Trump?

 

Remember this AJ, you can’t blame Trump forever.

 

Remember this Kode, you can’t blame Trump forever.