6% number is not debunked

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Josephwalker, Oct 6, 2020.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What "human rights" have been "suspended" in 2020? :eek:
     
    clennan likes this.
  2. clennan

    clennan Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    1,263
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Firstly, you need to distinguish between the “Covid-19 deaths” data that the CDC collects and the data reported out by the CDC. That is, the CDC collects data on deaths where Covid-19 is either the underlying cause of death (Part I on the death certificate) or a comorbidity (Part II). Among other things (e.g. surveillance, death certificate verification), this enables the CDC to capture a broad range of meaningful data. This data is then filtered, analyzed and reported out in various ways, to other agencies as well as the public.

    For instance, it enables reporting on the prevalence of COVID-19 overall, the extent to which is a cause of death or comorbidity, the nature and prevalence of comorbidities where COVID-19 is the cause of death (as in the 94% / 6% case report, and as verified by the NCHS in numerous fact checks), and so on and so forth.

    So, you need to pay attention to which specific data set any report is referring to. For instance, is it referring to all deaths involving COVID-19? Deaths where COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death? Or what?

    In other words, there is no one "death column" that the figures go into. CDC (and others) have multiple death datasets. However, when that data specifically refers to cases where Covid-19 is the cause of death cases will only be counted - as I have said - where Covid-19 is in Part I of the death certificate.

    What’s more, actually taking the time to browse through various CDC data sets will reveal these specifics, and help clarify what the figures mean. For instance, while in one place you’ll find a total number of deaths where Covid-19 is the cause of death or a comorbidity, in another, you’ll find more specific information - notably, the percentage of these deaths where Covid-19 is the cause of death (specified in Part I of the death certificate), not a comorbidity.

    And, if you did so, you’d find that Covid-19 is the cause of death in 92% of total cases involving Covid-19. In the remaining 8%, it is a comorbidity.

    Note that for Covid-19 to be listed as a comorbidity, it must have actually contributed to death. If not, it won’t (cannot) be listed as a comorbidity. That is, if you’ve tested positive and die from a gunshot would to the head, it will not (cannot) be listed as a comorbidity.

    In short, taking the time to dig deeper in this way will (or should) inform your interpretation of other data rather than dismiss it out of hand as false or misleading.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,815
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The right to breathe freely. The right to walk around and breathe freely.

    The right to travel. The right to own a business. The right to associate freely with others of your choosing.

    The recent federal court decision in the civil case against the Governor of Pennsylvania explains it quite clearly, if you care to take the time to read it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/14/pennsylvania-ruling-trump/
     
  4. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    804
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Pay wall for me
     
  5. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IOW NO rights have been DENIED!

    Got it!

    Have a nice day!
     
  6. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    804
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We guess if one is posting from Cuba
     
    Josephwalker likes this.
  7. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All I'm interested in is the number we are constantly bombarded with by democrats and their media. That number is arrived at by counting every death where covid was present.
     
  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    YOUR failure to provide credible substantiation for that BOGUS allegation is NOT my problem.
     
  9. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    804
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Then why did you respond if it wasn't your problem?
     
    Josephwalker likes this.
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,815
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Denial is the proper word, yes. :deadhorse:
     
  11. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wearing a face covering during a global pandemic is hardly a significant burden
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  12. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Government has no authority to force people wear masks.
    Also it has no authority to ban freedom of assembly.
     
  13. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    nothing
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Supreme Court ruled that the government DOES have the power of ENSURING public safety which INCLUDES regulating that people who assemble during a pandemic use recommended protocols and procedures to LIMIT the spread of the virus.
     
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,815
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Believing the statements of known liars is not considered to be rational behavior, in a sane world. Walking around with an obstructed airway is not rational behavior either. Rebreathing one's exhaust gases is not healthy behavior, even if David Muir says it's what we should do.
     
  16. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    NONE of that happens when wearing a mask!

    All that is filtered out are the saliva particles that could contain the virus.

    The AIR itself is NOT obstructed going either way since the air easily passes THROUGH the mask.
     
    Lesh likes this.
  17. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Anti-maskers would have us believe that a mask is worthless because it won’t filter 5 micron virus particles ( ignoring the fact that the virus rarely travels through air without being attached to larger droplet particles) but somehow that same mask restricts gas molecules that are far smaller.

    Logic is not their friend
     
  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    :applause:

    Science denialism is also common among those who embrace Conspiracy bunkum.
     
  19. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,815
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are certainly entitled to your own beliefs, but using an N95 mask and a pulse oximeter months ago, I determined by testing that in my case, after 30 minutes I had lost 3% oxygen saturation. I do not have the equipment to test for carbon dioxide levels, but it is logical that as oxygen drops carbon dioxide increases.

    If you are unable to grok that an obstruction placed over the places where air goes in obstructs the airway, then you have no chance of a career as a medic or first responder. :peace:
     
  20. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your anecdote versus millions of people wearing masks without any ill effects?

    Why do MEDICS and FIRST RESPONDERS wear masks?

    Are they all suffering from low oxygen saturation?
     
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,815
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That depends upon how long the mask is worn, as I've already noted.

    When lemmings go off the cliff, they do so by millions.

    As Macay observed in the 1800s, men go mad in herds. They recover their senses slowly, and only one by one.

    There was a time when millions believed that the earth was the center of the universe.
     
  22. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What you are saying them is that that mask is a VERY effective barrier against the virus
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  23. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Surgeries can take many hours
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,815
    Likes Received:
    11,821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A properly worn N95 mask CAN BE a barrier against a virus, depending upon various factors.

    If a person wears one all the time he may be protected from a virus, but he will suffer from lowered oxygen levels and hypercapnia as a result.

    Me personally? I have O+ blood and I use zinc and vitamin supplements, and my immune system is strong. I'll take my chances without the face diaper.
     
  25. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Stay the hell away from me and my family then... and don’t even TRY to enter my place of business
     

Share This Page