82% of Americans say religious freedom is key to ‘healthy American society’

Not exactly science.

 

I seriously doubt anyone cares about that at all.

 

The Roman Catholic Church has never been really anti-Science. Even the famous Galileo controversy was mainly because of a personal conflict between Galileo and the Cardinal who condemned him. (The pair were actually friends, but Galileo, never an easy man to deal with, wrote a book satirizing the Cardinal and the Cardinal felt betrayed.)

Many chiliastic Christian leaders are Christian in the same way ISIS are Muslim. It's a political thing, not really religious at all.

 

Then what exactly is science? Physics, biology, chemistry, engineering. They don't count in your book. What would you call them?

 

To be honest I do not know how I would have answered that question. For starters I do not entirely know what "Freedom of Religion" means and I have a feeling most people answering would have the same problem. I think if you asked a dozen people you would get a dozen different answers. I took a moment to google the freedom of religion as it is related to the constitution and was redirected to the "Free Exercise Clause".

There paragraph on its own is not clear cut and Supreme court rulings can attest to that.

So back to my original statement if I was to answer that question I would probably have said YES but my answer would have been centered around the thought that people should be allowed to believe whatever they want and worship whoever they want, BUT, I think there are tons of shades of grey areas that I would not accept.

For example if a business hired a baker who did not want to bake cakes for gay people they should not be protected and the company should be able to replace them with someone that can do the job. If you hire a butcher who won't cut up pork or beef then the company should be able to fire them. If you refuse to follow dress codes or safety gear etc... etc...

The problem I see is people try to use religion as an excuse to impact others. Religion becomes a shield for behavior that would not be acceptable otherwise.

 

Sure they do. The B’s and C’s that y’all are so proud of, fall short of the A’s of which were my standard.

When I was a kid, my parents made me go to church, made me attend a public school, made me say prayers at diner time. I always thought it was crap. I went through school with A’s, even in the more difficult honors classes. My siblings fell for the religious silliness yet they struggled with C’s and D’s. I went to college and they did not.

And of course, here you are arguing the superior intelligence of Christians, yet not by your own scores. It is rather common for Christian apologists to claim all manner of greatness for Christians, but among the intellectuals, those with high IQ’s, there aren’t any making that argument.

 

Companies can fire people for failing to meet company standards and policies. So you have that one already.

Companies can refuse service to people with whom they don't want to do business. Just yesterday I canceled an order that I viewed as fraudulent. When the customer called to find out why I had canceled the order I explained that he had used another person's credit card and that is illegal. He said It was a friend's card and he had given his friend cash so that he could use his card. I explained that I still wasn't going to fill the order. He should get his cash back from his friend. Then, of all things, he asked if he could use his debit card to place an order. Amazing. He claimed to have to use a friend's card and then admitted that he had a card of his own. We parted company. Imagine if I were forced by law to fill his order. I would be out the product and the payment for it. Consumers can choose where they spend their money. It is also appropriate that a business can refuse business if they feel the business would hurt them. Common sense. Supposedly this is a free country. Businesses need and value customers but they also have to do what is in the best interests of their company or they will lose it.

Some do but it is rare. Most businesses will sork to make customers happy. It is in their best interest. If you go to a bakery and the baker doesn't want to make one the way you want, you should find another baker who will. Thanks to a free enterprise system, every consumer has options. It is a good thing.

 

Liberty University, like all Evangelical colleges is an inferior college. The other day I made the comment that charge does not pass through a capacitor. I was brutally attacked by those who think they know better, (all conservatives) even by those who had taken courses in electronics. After a cursory look around the internet, it appears that it is rather common for people to think charge passes through capacitors. How is that so many people have come to think that charge, or current, passes through a capacitor? Inadequate education? The subject matter too difficult to grasp? Or more likely simplified, uncritical thinking.

Science is discovery, how does this work, why does it work this way, how I can I manipulate it. This is science, at its core. I once took capacitors apart to see what they were like inside, did a lot of experimenting, discovered how they work, why they work as they do, and how I can use their properties to do what I want.

My brother and his wife sent their children to an Evangelical elementary school. When they went to a public junior high, each one, in turn, was behind their classmates, and never caught up. When looking at the curriculum it was easy to see why. Every lesson was framed in religious terms. If Jesus had 11 apples and he gave one to each of his disciples, how many did not get an apple?


I know it is fiction and all, and the science is really iffy, at best, but I liked the series Eureka. About a secluded small Northwestern town that was full of top notch high IQ scientists and engineers. Even the cooks and janitors were the best in their fields. Religion never seemed to come up. Same with the series Silicon Valley. About a Silicon Valley startup. Lots of talk about science, technology, and engineering. The only mentions of religion were as jokes.

I spent my working career in Boulder Colorado, bouncing around high tech firms. Boulder is the least religious city in America, at around only 17% religiosity. Yet it has one of highest rates of educational attainment and its industries are built upon science and technology, having perhaps the highest density of such jobs anywhere outside of Shenzhen. Another city not know for it its religiosity. Such jobs are never available in religiously dominated regions.

 

The argument can be made that Europe succeeded, brought modernity to the world because of the break of the hold of religion on the continent. It used to be illegal to dissect humans, even dead ones, even to discover the causes of disease. It was in those jurisdictions where religious authorities had little authority where medical advances were first made. The vast majority of the innovation that has put the US on top of the world, has come mostly from individuals with little or no religious affiliation. People like Edison and Ford, the folks who invented the transistor, and those behind Microsoft and Apple.

The Middle East lags behind because they are mired in religion. China is set to overcome the US in a few years, and religion has never been much of a thing in Chinese culture.

 

LOL. Did I say anything at all about Christians? The only person here bragging is you Oliver. But you just tell wild stories. There is never any evidence to back your claims.

Good sir, your posting history does not lend credence to your incessant claims of superior intelligence. Nearly everything you post is completely unsupported by empirical evidence.

For people interested in facts and not Oliver’s bloviating, here is one study that is actual evidence to support my post. Of course Oliver has no evidence.

https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/8ye3s/

The data from the above working paper shows a 0.3 GPA advantage in students practicing religion compared to those who do not.

It seems folks like Oliver claim all kinds of greatness, but there never seems to be any empirical evidence to support such claims. Fascinating.

I get that you hate Christians but I never invoked Christianity. I find it interesting you claim to be a liberal and against racism, but you approach Christianity the same way an ignorant bigoted white redneck from Georgia approaches race.

 

Good lord. Again, if they aren't science then what are physics, chemistry, biology and electrical engineering. You failed to answer the question. You posted a bunch of nonsense. I called you on it, proved you were wrong about what you said about Liberty University and you answered with more nonsense. Of course capacitors do not conduct current but that has nothing to do with the thread or what you said earlier. You are too confused for me to continue with you so I will wish you well.

 

Have you not repeatedly claimed that rural counties subsidize cities? and then criticized my intelligence because I was not about to fall for such silliness. I can see how you are so bothered. The envy you must feel.

 

I do not envy people who can’t back up their arguments. I’m amused and sometimes feel pity. I’ve twice shown you the tax receipt data showing rural Oregon counties subsidize Portland. It’s just a fact.

I’m amused you think simple facts are silliness. At any time you should be able to support your positions with evidence. You are so sure you are correct and any other contradicting post is silliness. If your position is so correct it should be very easy to provide evidence you are correct. Somehow you always fail to do so. Why?

 

Kind of funny someone defending Liberty University, arguing that it teaches science. Arguing that it teaches anything other than religious indoctrination. It is one the lowest ranked colleges in America, if not the lowest. If a job applicant for an engineering job had got his degree from Liberty he/she would unlikely find a desirable engineering job. But then, anyone with ambitions of becoming an engineer would not attend a college such as Liberty.

 

Another deflection. If you don't want to answer the question then please stop responding to my posts.

 

Yes we know. Portland is a bunch of losers who have to be subsidized by all the hard working conservatives in the rural counties. We know how it is.

The data must be entirely wrong, because by every data set I look up, the greater majority of the wealth coming out of Oregon is generated in Multnomah, Clackamas, and Washington counties. Wages in those counties are above the national average while wages in the rest of the state are below average. Both Washington and Multnomah counties each create more wealth each year than all the other counties combined.

But sure, the rural counties subsidize Portland.

 

Really? Were you not defending Liberty University, pretending it taught science and engineering. Pretending it wasn’t one of worse colleges in America.

 

I didn't defend or pretend anything. You said they didn't teach science and I went to their website and copied down some of their science degree programs and provided them to you. That you don't like the university or its accreditation by the Southern Association of Colleges is your problem and immaterial to the point. Time to thank me for the correction and move on.

 

Please quote where I’ve called Portlanders losers. LOL

Generation of wealth is not the subject. It’s the fact rural Oregon generates more revenue per capita that is redistributed statewide than Portland does per capita. Portland supposedly generates more wealth but is actually further in debt than rural areas as well. When your liabilities are greater than your assets your gross income is not something to brag about.

Yes they do and again here is why that is a fact.

 

If you have 10 people and each contributes say 6 dollars then their total contribution is $60. But if there is a second group of say 1000 paying only 5 dollars each then their total is $5000. Significantly more than the group of ten, even though each member of the smaller group paid a larger amount. But even your premise is quite doubtful as the average wage in the Portland metro area is significantly larger than in the rest of the state as are property taxes. More people making more money and paying more taxes, but some how they are being subsidized by less people making less money and paying less in taxes? I’m sure that all adds up somewhere.

 

All my calculations are based on Oregon census and tax receipt data. Your opinions are irrelevant. Sixty percent of the population (Portland) is generating 55% of state revenue that is redistributed. The 40% of the population generating 45% of revenue are subsidizing the Portland area. Period. To be equitable Portland would have to contribute 60% of redistributed revenue. It’s quite simple math really. And not only is Portland not paying their fair share in revenue, they are accumulating debts disproportionately as well.

Say you and I go to eat together and you order a meal that costs $60. I order a meal that costs $40. When we split the check you pay $55 and I cough up $45. I have subsidized your dining experience. No two ways about it. Your income or wealth generating ability is irrelevant to the fact I subsidized your eats.

We can go a step further and say we go and get the same meal but after you pay $55 for your $60 meal and I pay $45 for my $40 meal you go to the bar and run up a $35 bill that you put on my tab. This is exactly what Portland is doing by not only contributing less revenue but going into debt they won’t pay as well.

Perhaps if you had gone to a synagogue or mosque when you decided Christianity wasn’t to your liking I wouldn’t have to spend my time using third grade level analogy to explain Econ 101 principles to you!

 

A deeper look into the data determines that this "advantage" VANISHES once you reach HIGHER academic levels.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news/2018...rtant-faith-school-education-academic-success

In summary the more disciplined religious schools do a MARGINALLY better job than public schools when it comes to BASIC education.

However Oliver is CORRECT that it there is ZERO religious "advantage" once you reach HIGHER education.

 

agree, keep religion out of government and public schools, let people choose for themselves what to believe

remove God from out pledge and money while we are at it as not all religions believe in a God

 

You do realize your post has nothing to do with the conversation I’m having with Oliver? I have never posted anything about the difference between secular based education vs. religion based education.

Apparently you are also someone who could have benefited from some religious involvement when you were developing reading comprehension skills.

Thank you for being exhibit “B” of people who think they are more intelligent than they are. LOL

Literally couldn’t make this stuff up.....