A Very American Coup

Oh, so attacking the Capitol, building a makeshift gallows in the front, smashing doors and windows in, attacking police, expressing your intent to hang the VP and take custody of numerous Representatives and Senators while stopping proceedings for the peaceful transfer of power is now so routine that I have "very limited life experiences" because it strikes me as sedition?

Jesus, buddy--enlighten yourself.

Hey, did you know that the DOJ just charged some kooks with a crime that you claim requires "limited life experiences" (*LOL*) to believe occurred?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/do...der-10-others-seditious-conspiracy-jan-6-riot

You're naive and ill-informed.

 

Thank you for your opinion. I’ll ignore it since it’s nonsense.

 

You'll ignore it because it's true and you lack the ability to rebut any of it.

 

Judging from that post, it seems clear you are very well indoctrinated. It sounds like your primary source of propaganda would be CNN or NBC.

 

Ironic.

Everything in my post is factual. Only the willfully uninformed would view it as the result of "indoctrination".

 

Not at all, this was a protest that turned into a riot, there are no black helicopters

 

It was an insurrection, with the goal of stopping certification of the EC vote. They broke into the Capitol and attacked the police, and were looking to kidnap members of Congress. The more organized are just now being charged with conspiracy to commit sedition.

Your arguments aren't reasonable, Rob.

 

There are 700 arrestees.

They are stating that they traveled to DC from the various parts of the USA to stop the election process.

You are just plain dead cat wrong.

This was an organized insurrection.

 

The Oath Keepers seemed to be making a deliberate move on the Senate Chambers, but Capitol Police forcibly repelled them. Sounds like an insurrection to me--and the DOJ:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/oath-keepers-sedition-takeaways/index.html

Shortly after getting inside the Capitol, one group of Oath Keepers tried to make a coordinated move on the Senate chamber, seemingly as if they were executing a mission. According to the indictment, they "tried to push their way through" a line of police, but the officers "forcibly repelled their advance." (Other rioters eventually breached the Senate floor and gallery.)

Prosecutors added more details of how the Oath Keepers allegedly stockpiled weapons at a nearby hotel in Virginia, just in case they needed to deploy a "quick reaction force" into DC.


READ: Seditious conspiracy indictment related to US Capitol attack
The charging documents say one defendant, Joshua James, got a message from a friend saying, "I have friends not far from DC with a lot of weapons and ammo if you get into trouble." James replied, "that might be helpful, but we have a s***load of QRF on standby with an arsenal."
Rhodes also amassed weapons and other gear on his way to Washington, DC, before January 6, prosecutors said. He allegedly bought a rifle, a magazine, and other firearms equipment, including sights, mounts, triggers, slings, and an optic plate. Rhodes was on the Capitol grounds on January 6 but hasn't been accused of entering the building, though prosecutors have said he "directed" his supporters to do so.

 

LMAO! A whole criminal conspiracy to overthrow the US government was ground to a halt because a handful of cops pushed back. That's how super serial this was! Look out guys, they're pushing! PUSHING!!!
/s
What a f***ing joke!

 

*LOL*

Umm, that's terrible reasoning.

"C'mon, your Honor. It was just a tiny insurrection. We were so stupid that we didn't bring enough guys!"

 

They sure did, they rioted and tried to prevent what they (wrongly) thought was the election being stolen. Any rebellion against government authority is an insurrection, ask BLM/Antifa.

Not to stop it, to prevent what they thought was the election being stolen. They were wrong but you can't deny that was their belief.

 

Agreed, but I don't really see the difference.

Their mantra was "stop the steal".

What they wanted to come after a successful insurrection was not really defined as far as I've been able to discern.

Did they want a recount? Did they want more court cases adjudicated? Did they want more Arizona style examinations, which would potentially take months?

Did they want Trump to declare a state of emergency and thus stop the transition until some set of demands was met? (Whether they explicitly wanted that, it seems like it would be required, as nothing new was going to happen between Jan 6 and Jan 20.)

If you or anyone else knows what they wanted to happen next, I'd be interested in ideas, cites, etc.

 

This is again such a bundle of nonsense for which my time and the server capacity of the forum is too limited to go into the depth of ignorance and falsifications and refute that complete, I just have to focus on the main part:

1. Facism/Goebbels other insults Guardian readers will use without understanding them

I do care for ideas, thus I would of course never argue about obvious nonsense like Fascism in America. If you would argue Trump and the Republicans are right-wing extremists who are a threat to the liberal democracy you stand for (maybe even to the extend as fascism in the past), I would resent this, but we were in a zone of different opinions and point of views, from which a discussion could develop. To label this movement as fascism is simply wrong, there is no basis where to start from the discussion. And my time is too limited to explain the differences in detail to someone who is incapable of an open discussion.

Its the same like your random dropping of the name Goebbels and it shows the effects of constantly reading Guardian. The label woke is well deserved there.

This is why your whole analysis of Trump and his presidency lacks a foundation to discuss on.

2. Islamism

I mentioned the term "Islamists", which is referring to a political Islam. Maybe it's too much to ask the typical Guardian reader to distinguish from "Islamic tyrants" but these terms dont have the same meaning. Two of the three US interventions you mentioned in fact supported Islamists and I see the alliance of the US (no matter if under Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton or whoever) with the Ibn Sauds very critical, which results oftentimes in a foreign policy in favour of Wahabite Islamism.

Only one was against Islamist interests that was Afghanistan in 2001, when the coalition with the Islamists backfired on 9/11 in a way the US had to act. So you can send your credentials for your distance to Islamists to Jessica Valenti or another Guardian author as a preface for the next edition of the vagina monologues or for her to print it and use it as toilet paper as two of the mentioned interventions actually served the purpose of Islamists.

And throwing in acid attacks on other people especially women/girls is another emotional drivel, this is a terrible crime which can in some cases be encouraged by Islamists in charge, but is not necessarily connected. Such terrible crimes are widespread e.g. in India as well, sometimes with non-muslims background or it may have occurred in Iraq under Sadam Hussein who was a tyrant of Islam confession, but no Islamists (although you have proven to be incapable to distinguish in between them). It may happen where Mexican drug cartels rule as well.

You are just as incapable to use the term "Islamist" only half-way correctly, the same as with Nazis/Facists. You are not interested in ideas and concepts at all, its for you a punchline, you dont know anything about these terms.

---

As for my "insults" like you call it (irony to read this by someone who writes textes like you)


What I confronted you with in that context, we had discussions long ago in which you told me how surpressed these oh so discriminated people of Turkish origin in Germany were. Fabricated nonsense you heard on a trip to Germany (they have no opportunity to get German citizenship and stuff like that). The reality is 2017 they didnt just vote in the German elections, but also gave 61% of their votes to Erdogan's change of the constitution (far more than in Turkey). And when Erdogan will make a referendum for the death penalty, they will overwhelmingly again support him again. Hurray to double citizenship and your liberal minority-centered woke ideas, which enables you as an Islamist to live far from the spot where Islamism (Erdogan is an Islamist, just fyi, as you dont know what to do with the term) burns a country into the ground.

While you are so eager to label Trump voters as fascists, although they are not, you are obviously evenso eager to see the fact that Islamists are not a small minority. As I am not sunken to the level of a Guardian-degenerate I would not go so far to call 61% of the Turks here Islamists, scum or similar hate pictures you paint of Trump voters, I take this as an indicator that this "its a tiny small minority that exists within all groups" or "this is just the patriarchy" nonsense by *******s like some here is a denial of obvious facts. And at the same time you try everything to whitewash Islamist groups you warn here that a country must protect itself from migrants who bring their reactionary attitudes with them, thats even for your standards a high level of mendacity. You will whitewash every Islamist and deny the problem without limits, but Cubans who possibly vote conservative in the US (you wrote more from a general perspective, but we both know this is what you are talking about) are a problem to be dealt with.

After all your texts are for me rather evidence that many liberals could be a real danger and that Trump could be a necessary evil.

 

As I said before, the stupidity of this comment is so deep, one would have to write books to dismantle all of it in detail. Let's go to this superficial drivel with which he may be may nail the very same narrative many Trumpists he depise so much are satisfied with. America was always the light of freedom to the world. Thats what Hollywood at least taught those who were never interested in history. And the typical driveling Guardian readers are the perfect example for people not even capable of reproducing anything more than handy stereotypes.

The reality was that for thousands of Black slaves the victory of the United States against the British meant about 100 years more of slavery. Many fled the plantations during British occupations, joined the Britishs as Black loyalists. Some were reclaimed as possession by their former "owners" after the peace treaty, some of them had the luck the British army was able to evacutae them from this "hope of mankind". Some of them became later known as the "Nova Scotia Settlers" who became a part of the founders of Free Town. For those who were unlucky enough to claimed back to their "owners" in this "cause of mankind" that meant oftentimes chaines, whip, torture and death.

In the centuries afterwards Black slaves continously tried to flee this "shining hope", preferring to drown in the Detroit river in a desperate try to make it into the European darkness of Canada rather than living the American dream.

One could talk about so many other aspects (Indian removal act, how the "American Dream" looked like for a lot of White migratory workers, etc.), at the end of the day it is what it is and it was what is was, a complex society with many bright and many dark sides and a lot of grey in between darkness and light. You cut it down to a superficial White Wash of what America was and talk now like a sulky womanizer who was turned down by a woman which was never as pretty as he imagined her when he was drunk.

If liberal democracy fails (which is still to prove) then it will be because it shovels its own grave. While liberals like you demand more separation within these democracies, criminalizing Trump supporters, attacking Biden for the trial to overcome fissions in society and to reconcile a nation, Russia sets its sight on the Ukraine. Congratulations. And as long as the left tries to seperate in its sphere of imagined moral superiority where in fact there is just moral bankruptcy, unable to reconcile a nation. people who simply force a nation to be in line will triumph over it. The Ukraine is just the beginning.

 

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Just more windy ad hominem trash eh? Your childish and weird stereotype of "Guardian" readers obviously reflects what is going on in your head rather than any reality about ideas. Just culture war drivel isn't it? Even the stuff you write about what I know about Turks in Germany is distorted. Of course I know that there is a route to citizenship for German Turks. Your lies about what I think about islamic extremism are lazy. I am acutely aware of the crisis within liberal democracy and that the primary responsibility for this lies with liberals. The fascist scum who now try and dismantle liberalism everywhere, whether from within political islam (highly reactionary) or the global authoritarian populism that is now coming together as a new global fascism, is all enabled by weak, self indulgent, narcissistic liberals. And in that I include leftists, captured for generations by Stalinism and so unable to think critically, then abandoned to philistinism and political illiteracy by a generation that is intellectually lazy, emotionally damaged and fragile.

As to you...I respond only to your recent posts. I can't remember whether you post neo-fascist, openly racist, authoritarian populism or leftist pro Russian weird stuff.... I don't really remember you... so I will leave it to your imagination how many babies Guardian readers eat for breakfast every morning.

Fascism is entirely an appropriate word for the authoritarian forces that seek to dismantle liberal democracy across the world today. References to Goebbels are only useful as shorthand to describe those who fabricate and infect society with multiple forms of competing "alternative realities". He will be seen by comparison as a primitive, even held back by some civilised values, compared to the filth that is ranged against freedom today. When the Ukrainians refer to fighting Orcs they are accurate in their imagery. Fascism was the rolling back of the Enlightenment, the English, French and American Revolutions, and it aimed to destroy democratic institutions with the use of political violence and a propaganda of hate and bigotry. In the USA it was characterised by America First, which openly appeased and collaborated with European fascism. The new movement carries the same name with no shame. It is now clear (from Bolton for example) that if Trump had won a second term he would have withdrawn from Nato and given a green light to Putin to invade not just Ukraine but also the Baltic States and possibly Poland. Ukraine according to Trump is Putin's back yard and this is clearly how he thinks. The destruction of the USA by Trump is of course necessary for American conservatives: they hate the global USA created by the golden generation that came back from Europe ion the 1940's. These conservatives live in some folksy fantasy world like Dorothy's Kansas or cowboys 'n injuns Western movies. That golden generation had by contrast seen something of the world, had mixed with French, British, Dutch, Polish, German, Russian people as they faced down Nazism and Communism alike.

We are back now to the dark days of Father Coughlan and Charles Lindbergh, to Know Nothings and Snake Oil Salesmen. Of course they have always been there. As you point out with black slaves in eighteenth century America, the liberals who made the USA, either in England or America, were always checked and held back by those less committed to the American Revolution. England in the nineteenth century was driven by abolitionism and liberalism but checked by monarchy and Toryism; the USA had its own Tories and England's liberals would soon support the South for "business reasons". Yes, there are times when radicalism is needed to check liberalism, especially regarding the excesses of a completely unregulated economy. But these are details. Even though the whole point of the USA was to leave behind the impact of violent state sponsored religion on the liberties of the people (whether in Catholic Europe or Episcopalian Ireland), there were always Americans who aped the vilest Puritan witch-hunters, or Spanish Inquisitor, set on a new American theocracy, even sometimes with a very American king and dynasty.

The biggest problem facing the world today is the continuing transitioning to evil of forty per cent of American citizens and the utter incapacity or disinterest of the other sixty per cent to do anything about it. The golden generation made us all far too comfortable. We thought they would go on for ever but they have yielded the ground to the Know Nothings and the Been Nowheres. With Russian fascism and dreams of a Russia from Dublin to Anchorage, Chinese Han nationalist fascism set to dominate all of East Asia, and European fascists in Hungary, Italy, France, Germany... all wanting another go, the 2030's are set to make the 1930's look like a picnic in the park. Last time round there was very little to stop them...only a moderate British conservative liberalism and something similar in the USA. This time I can't see anything to stop them: no Churchill, no Roosevelt, just vicious narcissistic dictators, armed with nukes, driven by dreams of being great men of history through conquest, tribute and fear.

 

The purpose was to stop the process until their questions on the count were satisfied. If you think someone is stealing your car you don't want them to drive off in it till the title issue is clear.

 

I think it's great these guys keep talking. They're losing the narrative, no one trusts them anymore, but they just can't stop themselves.

 

The purpose of WHAT? Of the violent insurrection?

We have a system of law. Insurrection is NOT part of that in any way.

Beyond that, there were NUMEROUS court cases BEFORE the insurrection. And, those court cases consistently determined that the Trump claims were monumentally and totally FALSE.

 

There was no violent insurrection. There was a protest where some people rioted around and in the Capital building.

 

Their stated purpose was to defeat our democracy.

They stated that they were there to kill the vice president of the USA and terminate the constitutional process of certification.

And, people died at their hands.

You've got NOTHING.

 

The purpose of the riot. There was no insurrection, there was a coup that was completed when Biden took office. Now there are all kinds of stories about what took place but that is how I see it. The coup started when Trump took office. I have never seen anything quite like it. Hope I never do again.

 

The January insurrection was a planned, lethal assault on our very form of government.

It included elected Republican officials taking part in the assault.

The objective was to end our democratic process and kill the VP.

 

It's very apparent that you're the one who has nothing, more precisely it's the entire Democrat party/leftist media nexus that has nothing. Maybe you give some attention voter issue polls. No one gives a crap about you faux insurrection narrative, What you guys are resorting to in militarizing federal bureaucracies to go after your political enemies is backfiring. And if AG Garland can't come up with some strong Constitutional reason for his Mar-a-Lago raid you can bet your a$$ that the voters will turn away from you in the millions. Americans are not stupid, we see what a pathetic desperate Kangaroo court you guys have going on. You've sown the wind and now you're going to reap the whirlwind..

 

There was nothing peaceful about any of the opposition to Trump from day one, and to the best of my knowledge we are not buddies.