A Very American Coup

The pressure on the Michigan officials directly being applied by Trump is now showing complacent liberals how his fascist playbook is playing out. Yes it was fun to watch Republicans flailing in the courts. Watching Guliani decide that his whole life is going to be as in a Borat movie, at a charge of twenty grand a day to King Trump, has been hilarious. But as was said in the beginning it was never really fundamentally about that at this stage. The objective was always to get to the stage where King Trump and his slimy sycophantic courtiers like Graham, Cruz, De Santis etc, create personal pressure on individual republicans to officially delegitimise the election result and move the decision to GOP officials dependent on King Trump's patronage. The goal is - as is being played out and as was always the goal and was outlined in the OP - to get the legislatures too submit an alternative Slate of Electors. Then the GOP will have no need to prove in any court that the vote was rigged. They then just have to prove that the selection of Electors can be done by the State Legislature within the Constitution if there is no resolution to the dispute, and that Pence has the right to accept that. They have the SCOTUS votes for that. No case will be put that proves fraud. Cases that seek to establish that there was no fraud and that this is based on a GOP lie will be dismissed as irrelevant to the Constitutional issues at hand. There is still a path for King Trump.

I hope he will fail which he may. But here is the real message to Americans liberals. Your complacency makes you complicit. You live in your bubbles and deny the existence of the other bubble. You never even go there. When I meet a Russian, a North Korean, a Brazilian, an Egyptian, a Turk, a Hungarian, a Pole I will treat these people as potential enemies of freedom in a way that doesn't apply to French, Brits, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Japanes, South Korean, Australian, New Zealander (at least not yet). Americans are now all in the first group. You can't tell what bubble an American belongs to when you meet them. They surprise you all the time, both ways. They are all now, notwithstanding whether King Trump clings to power or not, potentially enemies of freedom in the world. They are a danger to my liberty and security. All of them, until they prove otherwise, have to be considered potential supporters of a caudillo run state that goes with a swaggering exceptionalism. The USA, far from being the leader of the Free World is now a country where half the population openly support tyranny. Pompeo can take his little sermons about freedom and democracy and shove them where the sun don't shine. It is now a failing state, on the edges of the Free World and should be treated accordingly when free people develop their strategies for the future. Let's not worry about American isolation. The time is now right to contribute to it.

 

Wow. Scathing. And a bit xenophobic.

I was very worried about the Michigan visit to the WH. Fortunately it appears thus far to have not panned out in the way Trump envisioned. We are still a day away from MI and PA certifying their elections. A couple weeks away from when electors must be chosen by, and 3 weeks from electors voting. Fortunately no evidence thus far that state legislatures plan to overturn their own elections or alter how electors are chosen, but still time for things to change.

By the way, perhaps something that can give you some semblance of hope in these gloomy times, post from the polls thread on this subject:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...tors-regardless.580959/page-2#post-1072234979

 

It is hopeful. But stand back and see what you are saying. The problem you have is that over seventy million people, in circumstances which should have led to him being drubbed, voted for an enemy of democracy and liberty. These people are not holding their noses, they turned out with enthusiasm. And when the President behaves like the caudillo of a banana republic, or a despot manipulating a fragile democracy like Putin or Erdogan, he is enabled by the sickly sycophancy of a Republican Party terrified of upsetting this base of bigotry. A majority of this seventy million are explicitly opposed to democracy and in favour of a permanent tyranny of the minority. Many are calling for civil war and the death of Democrats! The nightmare is just beginning, not ending. An Age of American extremism has begun, and whether they win this battle or not, they have laid out their stall for all to see.

The USA, far from isolating itself from Latin America, is more and more resembling it in its embrace of authoritarianism, intolerance and antipathy for democracy.

This is not something created by Trump that now will melt away. This has been around for years. In some ways it was always there. The modern expression of this cancer in the body politic is directly due to liberal ineptitude, an obsession with identity politics as the main tenet of liberalism, explicit elitism and snobbery towards the white working class, and continuous refusal by liberals to venture out of their bubbles to engage with "deplorables". As always happens with tyranny, perfectly nice, often well educated people, now tolerate and support extremist bigots, racists, snake oil salesmen and criminals. This is not set to end soon. Liberals will continue to fight the culture war in a way which only strengthens the extremism of these others. The next demagogue to come along will be brutal, competent, and make Trump look like a cuddly teddy bear.

A country with such a number of people who oppose freedom and liberty as we see in the USA, who have been prepared not just to tolerate but to embrace someone like Trump, cannot be seen as a reliable ally by those around the world who support open societies. What was the shining city on the hill, the beacon of freedom to the world, is now no more. It is overrun with counterrevolutionaries who would restore an American type of monarchy. America cannot be trusted. Other free societies are severely weakened and must take significant steps to protect themselves now we see Pax Americana at and end.

How can this be xenophobic? You think the USA has a right to be the permanent leader of the Free World? If anything, other societies let the USA take the strain for too long, at the expense of their own institutions. European nations have similar problems to deal with and if the extremists there are going to be defeated then the USA cannot be indulged. They are in better shape in the major nations: Farage, the British Trump is still a fringe figure, Germany's new Nazis are receding, the FN in France is being kept at bay. Trump should have been treated like Putin in Europe. He was treated well with Royal visits and parades for the simple reason that he was American President. His bullying thuggish ambassadors should have been marginalised, exposed and declared persona non grata. They weren't because they represented "the world's leading democracy". This has to change. For the protection of Free Europe. A militant liberalism needs to emerge, perhaps modelled partly on great Americans of the past (like Roosevelt), but strongly intolerant of the enemies of freedom wherever they are. And right now tens of millions of them are in the USA.

 

Lomg before Trump came along I began to realize that the vast majority of Republicans would have been for comfortable in the Third Reich than in a democracy where inferior races have the vote.Worst of all they know these inferior humans always vote against them. Hitler was able to take the vote away from the Jews and Trump tried but he only got laughed out of court.

 

Believe you me, I am well aware this is far from over in the US. I am worried about what the GOP is going to look like going forward. What kind of demagogue will emerge from the 2024 presidential primaries, and will the recency of the Trump presidency allow the coalition of the left and 3rd party voters to again rebuff them? How will the aftertaste of Trump linger in the GOP voters who backed him as he continues to balk about how he was cheated due to fraud of a 2nd term over the years? Can the appetite for the consumption of propaganda that has fueled the radicalization of the right be in any way diminished?

The election results were about as disappointing as they could be despite a Trump loss. But the lackluster support Trump has received in his bid to stay in power gives me some hope that the Republican voters can still turn back from authoritarianism.

 

Seventy million is not lacklustre. (In the past I might have spelled that your way...my little protest!). With the historical gerrymandering by American Tories (the GOP) this bloc is probably more powerful than the majority. I think the other thing liberals need to think about is immigration. Some immigrants come from very conservative cultures. They adopt an "Im alright Jack" attitude when they are in the country and support pulling the ladder up. They admire strength. they may have little affection for democracy with argument, ideas, discussion. Look at Israel for example: what was a liberal bastion of European Jews is now an extreme right wing country facing the same kind of existential crisis for their democracy as the USA. Bernie Sanders is not someone I agree with too much as he is a socialist but he is right that it is the loss of the white working class, particularly the male, that has enabled these extremists. It's not the only factor, but it is absurd that trades unionists vote for Trump in such numbers. Identity politics is fine as far as it goes but as soon as some the reactionary Cuban exiles in Florida heard one word like "socialism" they were straight in the camp of someone who resembled Batista. Those who are not from liberal democracies are not natural liberals. This needs to be cultivated.

 

And now we have a coup, by the twenty first century's version of fascists (all comparisons are odious but this is the closest we can get). The leaders of such fascism nicely sidestep the mob, with a nod and a wink in their fake condemnations. Their dishonesty is as breathtaking and as much gaslighting as we saw from Goebbels in the previous century.

And yet liberals are in denial. Michelle Obama tweeting about babies and narcissists fails to grasp that this is a movement of monstrous evil proportions, not an errant individual. Polls show that half of republican voters supported the putsch. These are the base of the New Fascism. That is enough to guarantee that the next leader of the GOP will be a major threat to not only the Republic, but also the world.

And yet the dems will convince themselves on Jan 20 that the time is for reconciliation. That we can forget about all the nastiness and go back to their elitist "we know best for you" cuddly huddles on the Hill. These people seem top have learned nothing and forgotten nothing. The weakness of liberalism at a time when it has been most under threat since the Industrial Revolution, is a mark of this crisis. Liberal democracy is about to fall in its very own citadel with the Founding Fathers to be apostatised into feudal Christian monarchists by a lying and ignorant mob.

The time now is for aggressive and uncompromising opposition to the enemies of democracy, the Tories who now control the GOP, the liars and sophists who represent them. Now is time for the ostracisation by decent civilised people of anyone, in any context, even familial, who sympathies or supports this cabal in any whatsoever. Fascists need to be told to their face over and over again that they are barbarians even if that is tens of millions of people. Just as it should have been in Nazi Germany in 1930's. The situations are comparable: mass support (by a minority) for the destruction of democracy.

They are the also the moral equivalent of Germany's 1930s Nazis and possibly more dangerous. Crushing the 45% of Republicans who supported this coup, demoralising them, isolating them, casting them out of civil society as criminals and thugs, should be the priority. Treat them as Nazis because that's the moral equivalent of what they are. There will be more dangerous leaders than Trump who will tap into this monstrous evil. Pretending that this is the responsibility fo a tiny clique is tantamount to complicity with this. Around the world all Americans should be treated as from a dangerous, anti-democratic banana republic, until they demonstrate their hostility to their compatriot fascists. The USA is now open the brink of tyranny. The world must stop seeing it in any way as any type of shining city on any type of hill.

 

I used the search in the forum to go for the last comments of Heroclitus. Just to have a look. You know that, when you dont agree politically, but you appreciate this long well-formulated paragraphs. And he did not disappoint, but in this case it isnt necessary.

I am not convinced that Trump has a noble character nor do I appreciate his "Grab them by the pusyy"-attitude nor do I doubt that he is a hateful person. Yes, he does not play straight and yes his "fraud"-move was simple and predictable. Nevertheless I hope the Americans will re-elect him in 2024.

I consider him rather as a psychopath but a pure narcissist, but human kind needs all its varieties of characters. Truth is, a decent human would be destroyed by hate campaigns of the media, he feels shame when he said something stupid, he would feel powerless against the MSM machine, he would feel intimidated when e.g. BLM threatens voters or plunders shops, but not this man. The lack of empathy psychopaths (I think the term psychopath is only used in criminology today and not up to date, when it comes to psychology) have is the result of a lack of fear. Our empathy is based on the fear that someone could treat us like we treat others. While a decent person is easy to smear for the press, to humiliate for AOC, its easy to break him with fake rape accusations or any other instrument within the arsenal of the liberal press, Trump is immune to that. He is immune to that, because he is no decent character.

Where Ayan Hirsi Ali may be hurt when Islamist co-founders of the women's march make fun of her genital mutilation and when dirty people like Ilhan Omar know to use this as a weapon and the woke America is applauding, Trump is different. I dont know him personally, but my guess is he is driven by hate. Such attacks like e.g. those of Sinnead o'Connor who tweeted she hoped Covid takes him away makes him stronger. He is no decent guy, but he is the guy for the job, that is what matters.

Hopefully we will be re-elected in 2024, maybe with support in his election campaign by to-be-French-president Marine Le Pen. All the best may he make America great again!

 

Interesting, but improbable. IMO, there is a greater probablity that Trump will go to jail than ever be president again. And, by the way, the U.S. is a democratic republic.

 

Lets be optimists and hope for his re-election in 2024.

 

Interesting research topic...has anyone ever been elected to public office while serving a prison term?
P.S. Apparently, "yes," in regard to Congress.

 

Let's be optimists and hope that the GOP will come to its senses and offer a candidate that is not nearly senile and that is a good leader that will govern in accordance with constitutional principles.

DeSantis and Tulsi Gabbard or Noem from South Dakota would be great!

 

You seem to confuse Democrats and Republicans.

Trump would be great!

 

Trump is a corrupt individual and a very poor POTUS.

 

So are most politicians. I dont care. I have written my attitude toward Trump above. In short, he is a psychopath, but he is the right man for the job.

 

Psychopaths rule in Washington DC and Tel Aviv.

His time in office demonstrated clearly he was the wrong man for the job.

 

He was definitely the right man. I dont like his anti-Chinese attitude, but he was the right man to counter the onslaught of the left. When I look at Heroclitus' comments full of bigotry even more so.

Let's hope for his second term from 2025-2029.

 

Or Trump.

 

Ah Hitch you should be living at this hour: "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

But it doesn't cut it today Hitch.

These people and their totalitarian fantasies are a real threat to our freedom. We can console ourselves that we are right when they have finally succeeded in their wet dream to lock us up (they don't hide this: it is their dearest slogan that they grunt with all the charisma of the animals in Orwell's dystopian farm singing "four legs good, two legs bad".).

Interesting to see how many American Exceptionalists feel sympathy for the extreme Han nationalists who now often ape them: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...finds-new-partners-in-hate-on-chinas-internet. It all starts with lies. Whole systems built on lies. The open brazen unashamed lying of mainstream Republicans (like the disgusting and morally degenerate Lindsay Graham) and a totalitarian attitude towards truth from tens of millions of Americans is at the core of it all. The old Marxist vulgarisation that there is no objective truth because all presentation of facts is irredeemably corrupted by the class interests of the presenter was seen off by liberals in the twentieth century. The USA was the leading voice in that triumph of liberty over evil. Now that same vulgarisation, that experts and professional journalists are liars in conspiracy with gargoyles and demons, and that "truth" is relative to the perceived motivation of the person speaking, comes back from the Right. It is an evil totalitarian instinct in both identical guises. The moral degeneracy is the same. It starts with the lying. The extent of the lying leaves you breathless. Lies, nationalism, exceptionalism, superstition, paranoia and hatred...these are the hallmarks of the totalitarian mindset. From both Left and Right.

And in the middle there are us liberals (in the proper, European sense of the word before its as bastardised by American troglodytes), assailed from the Left (where we were thrown into the gulag, the laogai or now the Hong Kong Correctional facility), and the Right (whose rubber truncheons and castor oil presaged death squads, nun killers and child murderers). In every part of the world, we liberals are the enemy. Every power crazed bureaucrat or cheap quisling caudillo hates us with a zeal and a passion. We are only free in liberal democracies, of the constitutional monarchy or the republican variety. Free, for now, even as these countries come under attack from the barbarian hordes of nationalism: the been-nowhere, done-nothing grunts and their clever twisted puppet masters. Liberals really need a Brechtian jolt, to wake(!) them from their laconic fantasies so:

“Therefore learn how to see and not to gape.
To act instead of talking all day long.
The world was almost won by such an ape!
The nations put him where his kind belong.
But don't rejoice too soon at your escape -
The womb he crawled from is still going strong.”
― Bertolt Brecht, The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui

 

I didn't see that reply in my alerts, possible I myself have been offline here for too long. What evidence do you want?

Lets go back some years to our discussions, you were telling me what your Turkish friends in Germany told you. The racist Germans deny them citizenship (a simple google research could have lessoned you, but you felt much more compfortable to repeat leftist rubbish), they were oh so surpressed, such good people so dscriminated by this racist majority. They just want equal rights. You talked all this liberal nonsense, but not in the European sense, but exactly in the sense you call now "bastardised"). And all with the lie "they want just equal rights!" ...

I told you at this time what a nonsense it was and now you have really some guts to complain about immigrants who bring their authoritarian attitude with them. What happened in the meanwhile, Erdogan wanted to change the constitution and held a referendum. These poor surpressed immigrants by these racist Germans dont only have German citizenship, no they they have both, and they voted. While in Turkey, Erdogan is polarizing and won by an extremely small margin, in Germany Erdogan isnt polarizing among the Turks. He got more than 2/3 of their votes for the change of the Turkish constitution. To add, there are a lot of people with Kurdish origins here who are officially of Turkish origin as well, propably among non-Kurdish Turks (who have other authoritarian father figures, but are arch enemies of Erdogan and his regime) the approval rating of Erdogan is way over 2/3. I never calculated, but it would have been interesting if Erdogan even had to rely on his German colony here to get his constitution change passed. The Grey Wolves are in numbers the strongest right wing extremist organization in Germany, the DITIB in financed by the Turkish state and influences German policy. In the Social Democratic Party Aydan Ozoguz demands that Islamists should not be the target of police raids (it could further radicalize them), she philosophies that the German Grundgesetz (substitute for constitution) is always in transitioin and must with a demegraphic shift be changed, in another article she writes, a German culture doesnt exist, so there cannot be a cultural clash. Other heads of Turkish organizations warn their members the Germans are like dogs (Köterrasse) and warn to "mix" with them or to have contact in general with them and best part is, German courts judged this is legitimate, while every German who would say the same about Turkish people could be pinushed for racism. But as these Turkish-German people are part of the German people they can by definition not be guilty of hate speech against Germans. So far about your oh so opressed Turkish immigrants here.

You have what you wanted here in Germany, we have a slow islamization and the political left is the driving force to not only allow this but pave the way. Its interesting to watch the impact. 10 years ago calls for embargos against Israel or calls for the extinction of Israel would have been a taboo here, but meanwhile the BDS in in good standing with BLM and the FFF-kiddies, calls for boycots are wide spread and much more accepted. This is what your liberal agenda has led to right now and we are witnesses of an avalanche that rolls down a mountain in its very early acceleration phase. While in Germany you got what you wanted, I should now cry with you that in some demographic groups in the US it could backfire against the liberals? LOL. Dont have any illusions here, it WILL backfire against the left. Just go back and watch what happened in Iran with the so called progressives who had their alliance with the Islamists. They were their useful idiots and after the takeover they were hanging from cranes, but you guys seem to be very immune to learn from paralleles in history.


So far about that point. Dont worry, I can go on and on with bigotry in your comments.

 

We can only hope this aspiration to overturn democracy fails.

 

What does the future hold for Germany? Is there any hope?

 

In an orange jumpsuit.

 

For what? Russia? Lies proven to be so.

 

Yeah, the dude who ran a fraudulent university, w fraudulent charity, and a fraudulent real estate organization is probably squeaky clean.