Activists Protest ‘Conversion Therapy’ Conference In San Diego

I think what she means is that its his opinion.

 

No, it doesn't. The medical meaning of 'environment' is all things which impact a child's development - which are not genetic.

You're thinking of the lay meaning of the word ... referring to the natural/physical world.

 

Such people don't lack evidence. They have centuries of it.

You make a fundamental mistake in dismissing it. It's the same 'evidence' (centuries of trial and error observation) which consistently produces children who do very well at school. Are you seriously suggesting that such people don't know what they're doing?

 

My recommendation to you is to consider how 'the other' raises children. Look to those societies who predict (with an unusually high level of accuracy) exactly how their kids will turn out. If you remain unconvinced that they're on to something we're sorely lacking, then I can't help you.

With sufficient interest in knowing more than the limits of the tradition we've inherited (after all, it must have severe limitations given how our young people are turning out), we make the effort.

 

We aren't discussing a medical issue. It's a behavioral one.

No your referring to social factors.

 

Sigh .... love you Poly, but this is getting tres old.

 

You made the claim. If it is just an opinion based on how you feel, it's no different than claiming it's caused by the coriolis effect.

Western culture has moved more to a rational understanding of it.

 

From a behavioral standpoint the aspect you're describing is social.

 

then present it.

dismissing what? You haven't posted absolutely nothing for me to dismiss.

it is nothing you haven't posted anything to dismiss. I don't value unsupported claims.

No I'm seriously suggesting you should support your claims. I don't even know what people you're talking about if they exist outside your mind or their reality can back up any of your claims.

You have posted no evidence, no testimonials, no anecdotes. All you've done is shuck and Jive. It's dishonest and now I'm starting to think you are dishonest.

 

You can produce evidence or you can say you have an opinion.

Butcher claim is garbage on an argument level sweet heart.

If you're bored of this make your next post a cited example evidence science anything whatsoever or stop responding to me about it I don't care what you believe.

 

That's all fine. I think you know I'm referring to NE Asians (and other Asian groups). And you do know that such groups predict, with a very high degree of accuracy, how their kids will fare. It's not a happy accident. If you want their explanation, you need to ask them. I'm fairly sure they'll express it somewhat differently than I do.

Meantime, being able to predict outcomes is a result of respect (for the child) and strong guidance/support from day one. It's about total commitment, without let up, for the 18 years or so of your child's youth. It's about always putting your child first, and sacrificing your personal sh#t, no matter what it is. It's about recognising that the best thing you can do for your child is insist that they make an effort, and understand the benefits (both emotional and practical) of self respect and productivity. Nothing about conventional family life needs to be spelled out, just as 'don't do crime/don't flunk school' needs to be spelled out. Highly respectful parents produce highly respectful children, and highly respectful children usually don't go off piste, without ever having had to be told not to.

But in relation to this thread specifically, Asian kids are not told 'gay is bad', they just don't think about it in the first place. In the same way they don't think about doing crime, or deliberately flunking school. Parents aren't doing or saying anything to effect this, it's just what happens when it's not on the table. Either at home, or at school, or in your community. It doesn't even register as a 'thing not there'. Thinking that its absence should be noted would be like suggesting we ought to note lack of family discussion on 4thC flint knapping in the Outer Hebrides. That's how utterly irrelevant it is to ordinary family life.

 

Delete

 

Ah... so homosexuality is a contagion that has to exist and be accepted for people to catch it.

The whole idea that it's a disease.

I can't really say that that's very interesting. Just backward homophobia.

Who would have ever believed in a region that restricts freedoms people wouldn't express how they feel?

No it's not all this parental bullshit that you gas on about. Its the hostility of NE Asia against homosexuals that scares the homosexuals into simply lying about being heterosexual.

It's not rare here either. There are plenty of gay people that got into sham marriages to avoid disappointing their parents.

I knew your theory was bullshit.

 

It's not my theory. I simply respect it for its success rates.

And it's not about stamping out, it just doesn't 'exist' in the first place. It's a non-issue. That is not repression of any kind. If you argue that it is, you must also argue that not openly addressing (with your kids) the thousands of other life possibilities is also repression.

And I don't buy the idea (for a moment) that significant numbers of Asian kids are consciously gay but pretending not to be. In another place and family, maybe they would be - that's not my argument. What you need to understand is that homosexuality just doesn't occur to them. Urges cannot be recognised for what they are, when there is no context for it. You can know something as a concept, but if it's distant and alien, it's not a lived concept. You need a lived or potentially lived concept to have context.

 

I think I've lost a lot of respect for you.

It's stupidity. Believing homosexuality is contagious is moronic.

Bullshit.

pretending it doesn't exist is denial.

Thats pretty naive.

Bullshit.

this is just you trying to push the nonsense that homosexuality is a Contagion.

That's absurd. The reason why the concept exists is because the urges exist it doesn't work the other way around.

 

Taiwan recently started recognizing same-sex marriages.

This thread really has devolved into bizzarro world:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40012047

 

Well that's a good sign that they're catching up to us

 

So, you can choose, women, but you just don't wanna. That's a choice.

 

Duh.

I already said actions are choices. I said the attraction to the same sex isn't.

 

You, as a straight man, can choose to engage in sexual behavior with another man, instead of a woman for all sorts of reasons, but you just don't wanna, right? That's a choice of yours and it is as easy for me to make it in reverse as it is for you.

You as a straight person, can choose to remain a virgin throughout your entire life because some cleric tells you God wants you never to have sex with the opposite gender. You as a straight man, can make the same decision, because a law threatens you with a ten year prison term, and the same applies to me. This is a discussion that normally does not interest me much, because it is utterly irrelevant to my civil rights claims. Suffice it to say that we can choose to engage in sexual conduct or not to, but sexual orientation is more complicated than counting a series of sex acts, and then comparing it to what could have happened instead. Sexual attraction is one of the complications, and romantic love is another complication.

 

1) okay

2) I've had gay friends tell me there is a movement (among gay marxists) to 'gay the world', by 'getting to them young'. Whoever these world changers are, they happily acknowledge that the right environment will produce more gay people. They believe it's 'contagious', so I'm not sure why you resist this idea.

3) It's not a matter of 'pretending it doesn't exist'. It's simply a non-factor in the lives of average families, therefore does not require focus or avoidance.

4) It really doesn't. I've studied this (in the cultural context under discussion) for many years. Young people .. teens and young adults .. just don't even think about it as a possibility. Even when there have been 'urges' present, they're not recognised or understood, because there is no context for it. These are kids who have more self-control than western kids, so most urges are quickly disregarded as unproductive and and/or inappropriate (to age and circumstances etc). They don't dwell on such things - asking themselves naval-gazing 'what does it all mean' questions. They go back to work, and continue to live according to the only context they know. Heterosexuality.

 

So because some Marxists with nafarious goals believe it, it's real? Loads of retards believe stupid ****.

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

So you read the thoughts of all teenagers?

Bullshit. Seeing this type of person makes me feel this way. Seeing that type doesn't. The context exists simply by understanding the sexes.

Yeah thats cultural taboos. The fact that other cultures lack freedom doesn't mean homosexuality is conditioned.

Try again.

So Not being allowed self reflection due to cultural demands?

Sounds like a perfect reason to be a closet case.

Nothing you have presented supports your position. You are just saying that other cultures discourage self reflection and place taboos on things they view as unproductive. That's social manipulation. Manipulating a person into acting a certain way doesn't prove your position.

Sorry.

 

of course it's not it's not anyone's Theory it's not a theory it's Hysteria based on fear and lack of understanding. And as you said in another post people in these cultures aren't allowed self-reflection so that supports the notion that it's lack of understanding.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining this very well.

Here's the thing ... I don't dispute anything you're saying here, because it IS cultural. The important point is that there is no 'loss' felt (at the subsumed/ignored urges) because there is no frame of reference for it in the first place, much less even basic awareness of what it means. In other words, if you don't know that you could be a poet, you won't feel the lack of it if life thwarts your poetic ambitions.

If you feel that this all must come at some terrible cost, you'd be wrong. Just look at the stats and research on how well adjusted most NE Asian kids are compared to American kids. Much less depression, alcohol/drug abuse, smoking, teen pregnancies, STDs, crime, unemployment, etc etc .... all of these things being symptoms of (cultural and personal) dysfunction. These terrible afflictions of youth are happening despite a far more accepting and tolerant culture. How do you explain that?

 

I think you are spot on. You may simply not like my summary of your position.

To place taboos on thoughts.

your important point is lost because you cannot tell me what is felt and what isn't you are not clairvoyant you have no idea what people feel.

Think they're damn sure is a frame of reference I explained it already. If orientals understand that there are two sexes then there's a frame of reference.

Are you saying that they don't recognize two sexes?

again you cannot tell me what everyone feels you don't know.

Being that there are two sexes and I'm almost certain that Eastern cultures know that there is a frame of reference.

again you don't know what people feel. So you have no way of measuring weather the cost is terrible.

it sounds like they don't have a choice.

and it's your contention that this is because they're not permitted to be homosexual? I find that absurd and I dismiss it without evidence because you made the claim without evidence.

I would say the first reason is recognizing these afflictions. A less tolerant culture wouldn't.