Agnostics/Atheists are a fast growing demographic - this is good

there is a growing atheist movement they meet on Sundays to replace that social/community interaction that religion offered...

not for me I don't need the community touchy feely social interaction, I enjoy my Sundays commitment free, sleeping or doing what ever I want...

 

That sounds weird. The thing about church is that after the service, you just get together for coffee and cookies afterwards and be social. Not in a "touchy feely" way, necessarily, but just catch up on the news and all that. That's nice. But it would be hard to imagine gathering with other atheists just to do that. It's more of a nice bonus to the main church activity, so that's why I would think a social hobby or some such would be better, like when nerds get together to play Magic the Gathering and other such games. That would then provide a similar social venue to sit and chat with friends about whatever. Got to have more to do than just meet to chat, I would think, or else it would get boring quickly and fail to have any real draw.

 

I will address this one...

Not at all. You must not have understood me. Perhaps I was unclear.

It isn't that god lives in the gaps, it is the fact that science deals with what is measurable. If some force does exist, outside of the universe that some think it created, it is impossible for science to get access to it, to measure, the immeasurable. If something exists outside of the ability of science to measure it, that is not just a gap, it is impossible to access it. And so this moves into the realm of philosophy.

So the question is, does a force exist outside of this universe, that science can never access? And this is where the assumptions come in, and the field that talks about it, philosophy.

A theist assumes that this force does exist, and an atheist assumes it does not exist. An agnostic, realizing that these are assumptions, outside of the capabilities of science to investigate, logically discerns that this thing is unknowable, and therefore he cannot have any certainty in regards to this question. So he simply does not know, for he cannot know, at least at this point in time, or perhaps, ever. This has nothing to do with ascribing a god, to the gaps contained in scientific knowledge. It is a logical denial of science having access, given the nature of what is involved.

I dunno what some have such difficulty in grasping something that simple. So the Lord of the gaps in scientific knowledge is not what I employed. It is an entirely different level involved. A level that generally is the purvey of philosophy, that tends not to ascribe the certainty seen with theists and atheists.

Anyways, science never looks for a supernatural involvement in regards to this universe. For being based at the outset on the assumption of philosophical materialism as opposed to philosophical idealism, it is grounded in the assumption that matter is the foundation of reality, and it then moves from there, in inquiring on how things work, having set aside any possibility of something outside the universe being involved. Science is not looking for some force outside, they are looking for all of the answers inside, based upon matter being fundamental. And so any explanation that science would come up with automatically excludes the idea of some outside of the universe force being involved. Atheists try to use science to back up their assumptions, for they know there is no place in science for an outside force being involved. It is a self fulfilling exercise, that they seem not to be able to notice. Science has zero interest in the possibility of an outside force because they is precluded from the get-go. And they of course never look for it, for to them, it does not exist, based upon the assumption underlying science grounded in philosophical materialism. And this way of looking has been successful in understanding, but also great technological advancements. But understanding and manipulating in order to develop technology in no way evidences the non existence of an outside force, for they may just be working to understand how that outside force, and what that outside forced used in order to create the universe.

And so the question, the question of whether an outside force exists or not, is not something science is capable of evidencing, one way or the other. Just like no one can separate himself from this universe and then look at it from the outside, in order to see it. One thinks of Plato's Cave, in relation to this.

Look, I know both the theists and the atheists demand certainty and will exclaim that! I am just pointing out, that neither is possible, given what is actually involved. And I don't see how anyone can argue against what should be obvious. I think it is driven by emotions, desires, and so on and they for whatever reason cannot see what looks to be rather simple. Perhaps it is the demand that many people have for certainty, over uncertainty? But seeing clearly will show most that indeed one cannot have the certainty that so many of us demand, and then it is up to the person to either admit to the obvious, or to run away from it. Seems like the theists and atheists prefer to run away.

It does take great humility to admit the obvious, given the demand for certainty. The upside is that once one can do that, humility comes in as well as an open mind. And this is a positive, IMO. But apparently it must give some of us panic attacks, and that is not bearable? I dunno, just conjecturing here on the causes. For as I do not know the answer to the big question, there are many lessor questions I don't know the truthful answer to either. ha ha

The Truth remains, neither you nor an atheist can honestly have certainty, or neither you nor the theist can ever have certainty, given the nature of what is involved and the limitations of science.

I am grateful to my philosophy profs long ago for helping me to understand what can be known and what cannot be known. As a matter of FACT. As I am grateful to science for what it has done for humanity.

 

Potato, Potahto.

I don't know if atheism need extend so far as to make assumptions about nondescript "forces" existing outside of the known and measurable universe. I understand atheism to be a rejection of various gods - theoses - claimed to exist by theists. The term arose long ago to describe non-believers in the Greek pantheon, if I'm not mistaken, and has since been used in the Christian realm to describe those who don't believe in the Christian god.

 

The countries you mention all were created as extremely religious societies. As atheism grows their countries are declining and there is growing chaos and social division. Even

No and that is nonsense. Do you have 50,000 family members who grouped together and built a city?

Humans are social creatures like dogs and most birds. However, the herding nature does not create huge complex societies acting for a single purpose.

There has been NO atheist society of any size except those we can count on one hand that actually were created as a highly religious society. IF a revolution leads to an atheistic leadership, the result has been rapid social decay, growing oppression, usually mass murder on genocidal scale and ultimately collapse. Both China and Russia had to abandon their anti-religion stances.

For example, China criminalized all religions with the harshest of punishments, even death, in 1949. It is only in the most recent years as China shifted to a market based economy was any religion tolerated. In that short period of time, the percentage of atheists and agnostics has dropped to 60%. As religion in China grows, so does its wealth and influence.

Russia including Putin openly reversed its anti-religion policies, openly declaring Christianity but also welcoming all other religious practices including Islam. As it does so, Russia increasingly comes out of the dark ages of the anti-religion atheist USSR.

Norway and France are countries whose great wealth and power came as religious nations - not atheistic nations - with increasing internal divisions and chaos with declining economies as they increasingly become atheistic.

You can name NO country, no great empire - ever in the known history of earth that was created as an atheistic country. The FEW in modern history you can argue are atheistic ALL did so only in the most recent of history and their nation or empire was NOT created under atheism. It was created as HIGHLY religious countries and empires.

In the world, only 16% of people are atheists or agnostic. In world history, 99% of people have been religious. All your theories and slogans are disproven by the entire history of the human race every where in the world across thousands of years.

 

There are no true atheists. Instead, they either 1.) declare themselves their own gods as total moral free agents, ie anti-social or 2.) nearly all just replace "god" with government and treat laws as edicts from their government-god.

 

Don't tell that to the Japanese going to the Shinto temples during Oomisoka.

https://blog.gaijinpot.com/japan-religious-atheist-country/

 

Cannot imagine where you drew that conclusion.

 

yeah I don't see the point of meeting either but then I've never been to one so I don't know what they talk about...it seems like an attempt to herd cats, other than everyone being atheists and human what do we have in common?...maybe it's filling a social/cultural void for those who left religion behind, not a problem for me my father was an atheist so religion has never played a part in my life...

 

when someone believes in sky fairies, ghosts, spooks there isn't anything they can't dream up.... believing in "the supernatural" requires a suspension of logic and reality...

 

You have this so back assward that it's hard to tell if you are being facetious or not.

Atheists don't lack spirituality. They simply lack a belief in god. One can live a spiritual life without bowing to some unseen, supernatural zombie in the sky.

 

you were talking about Hunter gatherers not me...neolithic farmers brought people into permanent settlements not religion...and those early religions weren't christianity or islam so evidently you've been praying to the wrong gods....

actually it's the exact same social process, we're no better than animals despite what your religion tells you...

that was quite the walkback! lol...

religion has nothing to do with china's growing wealth, that's all to it's market economy....60% atheists...20% Buddhists, Buddhism doesn't have a god...not looking so good for religion in China...

Norway came by it's wealth through socialism and oil, religion was in sharp decline already due to a very good education system, fact based science vs fairy tales....France is no different, it's power came after the removal of religion from the state politics, education did the rest...and this holds true in every country that separates it's educational system from religion....

mongol empire was Buddhist/atheist ...and what does power have to do with anything???...power has never been anything except as a source of murder and oppression, so religion is responsible for that according to you, not something to be proud of imo...and countries become powerful in spite of religion not because of them...

are you getting worried?...atheism is on the rise and growing exponentially in developed countries all your slogans and praying won't stop the flood of enlightenment that is headed your way...maybe you could try shut down every secular school on the planet but that ain't gonna happen...

 

And just why is fast-growing atheism a "GOOD"?

Because atheists/agnostics can vote as a block with other secular types to offset the bogus Pat Robertson voting block and keep the wall of separation of church and state intact and keep America from becoming a domestic taliban theocracy.

Happy holidays! Seasons Greetings! (but you can't make me wish anything in any specific denomination so you might as well give up on that)

 

I think all politicians should be atheist.
They are elected to serve their constituents,
Not their favorite sky daddy.

 

So what ?!

 

going through polls I found there's lot's of conflicting data to contend with...in one poll 53% of those who responded believed in a life after death, 50% believed in religious miracles...but only 30% were sure there was a god/gods?

of those who claimed to be catholic 30% also said they were atheists, 28% of those who said they were Protestants stated they didn't believe in a god...I can only conclude theses are cultural christians, they attend church(or claim to) only for cultural/social reasons and to keep the peace with their parents/families...

 

An amoral America is a laudable goal.

 

Thank you, you put much more elegantly than I.

 

I'm not sure I believe in agnostics.

 

social morality came before religion...

religion just messed it up with endless persecution, intolerance and wars all in the name of some god/gods who was better than the other guys god/gods

 

I see what you did there...funny!

agnostics...chicken atheists...

 

Wow. That's pretty disturbed thinking.

You realize secular governments have killed an exponentially higher number of people than religions, right?

Just in the 20th century alone ... Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc. killed well over 100 million people. The Crusades were like a food fight compared to the evil of the 20th century.

 

Well they sure put together one Hell of a collective resume over the last century.

If the consituency is worthy of service, there is no conflict.

 

secular governments don't kill because of religion...hitler was roman catholic and nazi's weren't secular...Mao wasn't religious genocide that was agrarian reform that went awry...comparing genocide with modern weapons with genocide by crusader swords is just silly, if crusaders had nuclear weapons they wouldn't have left anyone alive in the islamic world...

 

Secular governments have killed many more people than have been killed because if religion.

Hitler ran a secular government. He wasn't on any crusade to spread Catholicism.