America's achilles heel - election system

Is English your first language? From my post: Explain how it came to be that Putin's people worked with Christopher Steele to destroy Trump.
You either can or can't explain why Putin's people helped Christopher Steele with content to destroy Trump if Putin favored Trump.

 

In my experience, and I've worked the polls on occasion, people without proper ID but with an address in the correct precinct fill out a provisional ballot that is counted if needed. That's where they are in the OH-12 Special Election. The people who hand out ballots at the polls have voter rolls by name and address.

 

How do you register without proving who you are and in what district you live? And again I don't recall reading about hundreds if thousands of people being nit being able to vote. And yes there a residency requirements to vote. I can't just go to a district on the other side of the county and vote for a county commissioner in that county. I have to show residency in the district. You know an address.
The Constitution does not proclaim voters must be coddled. It is the responsibility of the citizen to ensure to the rest of us they are qualified as a voter and as a voter in that voting district and who they are.

 

The way the system has worked for DECADES is you send in a registration form, and then the elections office VERIFIES the information. That makes registering to vote as easy as possible, yet protects against fraud.

And then when you show up to vote, you tell them who you are and they check you off the list. Again, exactly as it has worked for DECADES.

Since in-person voter fraud is ridiculously rare, why would you implement an entire system to stop it, especially when the system disenfranchises way more people than voter fraud ever did?

 

Same here. If there is some problem a provisional is submitted and if close enough the provisionals would matter then then those have to be verified.

 

How do they verify it?

How do they know it is you?

Strawman.

Again are you advocating registering and voting without ever having to identify yourself?

 

In your application, you provide your name, address and either a drivers license number or the last four of your SSN. Then They check that the data matches. They then send a registration notification to the name and address on the registration.

As long as the information is correct, they don’t care. As far as legal enforcement, you are warned that a fraudulent registration is a crime. Which is how we handle nearly all crimes — we punish them after the fact. Given how rare registration fraud is, that seems appropriate.

I mean, think about this. In order to commit registration fraud followed by in-person voter fraud, you can’t just make up a fake identity, because it is verified. You would need to identify an actual legitimate voter who doesn’t vote, and register them without their knowledge. You would then have to go to that person’s polling site and pose as them. You have just committed multiple crimes in order to cast a single fraudulent vote.

If you want to cast MULTIPLE fraudulent votes, you would need to repeat this process multiple times, committing dozens of crimes. You would probably have to do it in multiple precincts, to keep the poll workers at each precinct from getting suspicious.

And even if you did this a dozen times, in 99.99999% of races your fake votes would make NO difference in the outcome.

THAT is why in-person voter fraud is so rare: because the payoff — a single fraudulent vote that likely won’t make any difference — is SO not worth the effort and legal risk involved.

LOL! No, it is not a strawman. It is the entire POINT. How do you justify disenfranchising even TWO legitimate voters in an election with your Voter ID law when in-person voter fraud is so rare it affects FAR FEWER votes than that?

You know how you can tell that Voter ID backers know their position is bullshit? They consistently avoid addressing the extreme rarity of the crime they claim to be concerned about.

 

Proof positive that the effect of requiring voter IDs is statistically insignificant. Thanks for sharing.

Now, we can discuss REAL voter suppression. In Cuyahoga County, in person early voting is only provided at the Board of Elections in Cleveland. The large Black community in Cleveland are given 22 days of early voting. To get there, someone would have to travel through the 20th most dangerous neighborhood in the country. Thus, a resident of the suburbs who works has one day to vote compared to 23 days provided to blacks. If that worker happens to be called out of town on business at the last minute, his vote is suppressed.

Since Cuyahoga County Courthouse is not in a much better area, many suburban woman will remain under the radar screen ---- will not even register to vote and risk being a violent victim of jury duty.

I remember election day 2014. I got to the polls first thing in the morning on my one day to vote. Half of the booths were closed. I asked a poll worker about it ,,, and was told that the Board of Elections sent down the wrong pens for the scanner they were using. So I waited for a booth. When I got done with my ballot, I went over to the scanner that was shipped down after being used for 22 days and it didn't work. I ended up leaving my ballot there for a poll worker to scan.

That was voter suppression and it continues to this day!!!

 

Hardly insignificant, the side effects of the "cure" (disenfranchisement) are thousands of times worse than the alleged problem (voter fraud).

 

So they don't know if it is really the person.

So they don't care if it is really the person?

Well we know how that stops crimes from happening.

Yeah, or the brother of a dead person. Or the landlord of a tenant who moved out of state. Or just a fake registration.

Only needed to do it ONE time in West Virginia.

Strawman, all it can take is one.

 

That's a whole different thing and something I don't know about but I don't think it necessarily has to involve ID. Here in the UK we periodically receive a form, we complete it and send it back to remain on the electoral roll.

Maybe you didn't try hard enough - there were various lawsuits about it.

Proof of address/residency doesn't necessarily have to be picture ID.

...and that has been done without recourse to voter ID - a comparatively recent innovation which, as a (desirable for some) side effect tends to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people belonging to certain demographics.

 

I don know who gussifer2 is and neither do you

But if the russians are guilty of anything it was hacking mrs bill clintons GPS so that she could not find the state of Wisconsin

 

Meloweese Richardson voted for Obama 6 times, was rewarded by Obama and celebrated by Democrats everywhere. How many other Democrats voted 6 times? 5 times? 4 times?

 

....and she was convicted and sent to prison - as she should have been.

 

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but GA does have Voter IDs and more minorities than ever started voting after the implementation.

 

I get a voter registration card periodically which is only for me to confirm the information is correct and give me a card with my current county and city districts so I know in which I am voting. Of course if the person is dead or doesn't live there anymore its sort of an honor system for the person living there to send it back.

I have not had to register in over 30 years as I have lived in the same place. Previous I live in several different states or county. Each time I went to the county courthouse or satellite an got my drivers license, my car tag, and registered to vote.

Why should I have to try? The MSM would LOVE to find people who could not vote but the have given up because the only ones they could find where those who through their own lack of responsibility had lost their ID or had incorrect information and had never bother to take care of the matter.

If the voting roll address doesn't match your ID it causes a problem and you will be given a provisional ballot and if they are going to be counted later then you have to go down and prove you do live at that address now.

Actually no in the past it was strictly an honor system.

So you oppose voter ID in your country and want to end it?

 

And if in the meantime you lose your ID and it's stolen and you're unable to replace it for one or many a variety of reasons - you find yourself disenfranchised. Like I say, my life and personal conditions are such that replacing lost ID is no big deal - many others are not so lucky.

These people were disenfranchised by a "cure" which is yet to be shown has an "illness"

Again, a solution in search of a problem.

...and an honour system with an exceptionally low rate of abuse

There is no voter ID requirement in my country.

 

The CIA refuses to declassify the evidence at this time. It's how the CIA works. But they have declassified who Russia Russia Russia has supported going back to the 1960 Presidential race and the kremlin went with JFK.

Go here and have some fun. -> https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/home

The Kremlin sure wasn't supporting John McCain in 2008 or Mitt Romney in 2012.

Barack Obama was the best thing to happen to Russia since the AK-47.

 

Well I have no reason to believe I wouldn't be able too and no I could still vote on a provisional ballot. To say we should not take practical and prudent steps to insure the integrity of our voting systems because someone might lose their ID is folly.

It disfranchises no one here and yes voter fraud exist.

Nope a solution so that the person voting for a city councilman in that district is actually a resident of that district.

.

We have no idea.

Ahhh that was Jonsa I think in Canada.

BTW

U.N. Poll Watchers Baffled U.S. Doesn't Require I.D. to Vote
"It's an incredible system," said Nuri K. Elabbar, who traveled to the United States along with election officials from more than 60 countries to observe today's presidential elections as part of a program run by the International Foundation for Electoral Systems (IFES). Your humble Cable guy visited polling places with some of the international officials this morning. Most of them agreed that in their countries, such an open voting system simply would not work.

The most often noted difference between American elections among the visitors was that in most U.S. states, voters need no identification. Voters can also vote by mail, sometimes online, and there's often no way to know if one person has voted several times under different names, unlike in some Arab countries, where voters ink their fingers when casting their ballots......
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...-baffled-us-doesnt-require-id-to-vote-n695241

Voter ID is a perfectly reasonable and pragmatic means to help insure fair and honest elections.

 

What I'm seeing in this is two sides that you can essentially boil down to: One fraudulent vote is too many vs One disenfranchised voter is too many.

I'm ok with Voter ID with the classic caveat: The state should pay for and support outreach programs to every single registered voter. The goal would be finding ways to provide this person with a voter id. Make it easy to get the ID. Our whole system is predicated that people have this right, yet it is classically also part of our political system that suppressing opposition turn out and increasing your own turn out is viewed as a fair way to do things.

 

Theoretically it's all tickety-boo, in reality it's been corrupted badly. I understand the republican form of government but without wanting to belabour the point, it is also a representative democracy. The damage is in the politicised justice system and the localised control of voting systems in the states which in some states have been corrupted. After all yours is the nation that gave us the term Gerrymander. No, you weren't the first, the British electoral system in the 19th Century was as corrupt as a banana republic. All politics is susceptible to abuse and corruption, we have to be on watch for it.

I read almost daily where the politicians in charge of elections (!) are trying it on with various schemes which appear to be legal but which damage the electoral process. It appears that maintaining power trumps democracy in parts of your republic.

 

This is exactly what I have said for years: I’m fine with Voter ID as long as the burden is on the state to provide it, not the voter to obtain it.

Especially because the math is on the side of “one disenfranchised voter is too many.”

Weirdly, the Voter ID laws that actually pass never seem to contain such provisions.

 

WRONG YET AGAIN.

Read the Wisconsin web site.

You do not need a DL or the normal state ID card to get the state voter ID card.

A marriage license or divorce certificate is enough ID to get a voter ID card.
An employer pay stub is enough ID to get a voter ID card.
A social security card, library card, EBT card, are enough ID to get a voter ID card.
A high school or community college ID is enough.
Any federal state county city or local photo id (such as a library card) even if expired is good enough to get a voter ID card.
And there are other options listed.

How many of those 275,000 had none of those?

Until you learn to read, you are a waste of time.

 

I will do this one more time.

Here is the page you linked to:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/license-drvs/how-to-apply/identity.aspx

It is describing the requirements to obtain a REAL ID card, which is a federal standard for travel documents.
https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

For most people, their REAL ID card is — wait for it — their drivers license or state ID card.

It is NOT describing some special Voter ID that is only used for voting.

If you disagree, please cite the language on that page that refers to voting.

 

Given serious consideration, which it has not
electronic voting with no paper back up should never have been allowed.

Imagine, voting electronically, receive a paper receipt, sign the receipt that it truly represents your vote and put it in the ballot box. Electronic voting with paper back up.


Moi

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What if a Right Wing group could buy Welfare recipients Not To Vote.
Imagine!