Are you lawless?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by BFSmith@764, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    God is worthy because when He makes a promise we know that it's as good as done.......He is faithful in keeping His creation functioning as it should. Do we make our word our bond, as God does, or are we in the habit of lightly saying things without ever thinking of living up to our word?

    There is no benefit from God for a person to say that God is worthy while he/she is untrustworthy…..God already know that He is worthy......He does not need us to remind Him of that. But rest assured, God expect you to live up to your word and to do otherwise is practice lawlessness.

    Matthew 7:22-23 (NASB77)
    22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
    23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

    Lawless people are not bound by their own word.
     
  2. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    what promise?

    How is that?

    Should millions die of malaria, starvation and wars?
    what word, is 'gods'? Man wrote every bible and even the commands and circumcision are Egyptian based and 1000's years before anything the western 'word' claims of god
    not sure how to take that........

    I do know that god never said a word to man and to say that he did, is lawlessness (a lie).

    Exactly.

    No one on this earth but one has the name of god.

    Period!

    rev 22;4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads


    So all them idiots making the claim, that they are representing 'god', in his name are the sob's that prove to us all, that they are liars (lawlessness)


    exactly ................ The lawless, will lie using someone else's beliefs over sustaining the law of no false witness, as the priority.


    Great Thread title
     
  3. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    For example, the Messiah was promised from the time of Adam.

    God is not the one that is starving them or waging wars in the world….man is. And much of that war is western influenced or caused. Notice how silent mainstream Christianity is......they refuse to condemn the government's injustices.

    But the truth is it is God’s people who should be gaining influence and power in the world, in order to have a positive impact on people around them…..the wealth of the world should be in the hands of God’s people, but there are very very few people like myself that believes as I do. Most Christians believe that they are Heaven bound, so they are not into doing what Jesus expects of those who are His brothers and sisters. Heck, one cannot even get Christians that even attend the same congregation or Church to support other members businesses, and thereby building each other up to become economic power house that commands attention…..the potential is there but the financial resources is being channeled outside the Church instead of within it.


    How do you know that God never said word to man? You are not even old enough to be a hundred. Sure, I would agree that God never spoke a word to you if you had said that, but you have no proof that God never spoke to the men and women of God in the Bible.

    You’re entitled to your opinion but don’t pass it off as something you know, as if you have been around for thousands of years and have the ability to know everything regardless of where you might be. Don’t presume to be omnipresent and omniscient. It’s best to admit that it is possible, than to dogmatically say you know that God never said a word to any man.


    That’s true…….most Christians are not what they believe they are……they are deceived. Being deceived has everything to do with having incorrect knowledge. But they would not even know what is it that they believe that makes them deceived…..the deception is so deep that even if they were shown it in the Bible where there error is most would still reject it.




    It’s deeper than that it has to do with a lack of principle. Most Christians use Grace as if God does not expect anything from them……just believe they say, but totally ignoring everything else that Jesus said. They are also very quiet when it comes to speaking out against injustice by the State as if Jesus never addressed injustice.


    I think so too and I hope it will make many to look into themselves see if they are that way……I hope they don’t assume that they are not and if and when they see it that they don’t be like the foolish man that sees his dirty face in the mirror and walk away and forgetting how dirty is face is.
     
  4. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    Promise of what?

    The Christians in Haiti are letting the people starve that will not convert to Christianity. Problem started by earthquake, then Christians began using the donations and food as a method of blackmail (convert or starve).

    It's a bonafide example

    funny hesus mentions leave everything and be a humble servant.

    Are you reading the jewish version of the bible?


    Just witnessing what I can.

    Have you seen god talk to any man? If I cant witness the event thereof, I cant witness that it is true.

    can you?

    sure I can. Just read the bible.

    for example: 21 And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them.

    22 And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,' --


    Who heard that, from god? Do you understand what god saithith, right there?

    I will leave it open, that over thousands of years, perhaps a Ramases (pharaoh) could have spoke to be, and they thought he was 'god'. It was 'pharaoh' that required circumcision over 1000 yrs before torah was even thought of, so I can leave that open.

    Likewise, if 2000 yrs ago, I walked thru Jerusalem lighting a bic lighter, and never said a word. I would have been more of a god to more people, than jesus ever was.

    schawheeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

    I like your inglish
    for example: matt 16;20 Then did he charge his disciples that they may say to no one that he is Jesus the Christ.

    john 14;30 I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing

    ie....... jesus was/is not messiah....................................... Never was and he himself said it, charged it, claimed it (all per bible) and for some reason, 'tupids just cant get it.

    Are you lawless?

    Did you see jesus? Talk to god?

    Or are you just learning the truth from that mess of a man, right now?



    .
    boo
     
  5. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    To preach the good news of the kingdom of God, to declare the Father to His brothers and sisters, to pay the price for sin, to take back what Adam had given to Satan and to start His Church whom the members will rule with Him when He returns to the Earth.

    They are Christians in the eyes of the world but they are not from God's position because that is not the way Jesus acted when He was walked the streets of Jerusalem. They accused Jesus of braking the Sabbath because He healed a man on the Sabbath.....Jesus by miracle fed thousands of people on two separate occasions....He was loved by the very people that were despised by the Pharisees. Jesus said we will know who are really His by how they live.



    Being humble does not mean you are powerless and or poor in financial wealth.....it just means one is not arrogant or haughty. The Bible says that Abraham was a rich man, but he was also very humble and which is why he was so obedient to God. Jesus never condemned wealth, He only condemned the attitude that so many wealthy people have. You can do a lot of good things if you have money, such as starting a business and employing people. You can donate money to worthy causes or you can start one of your own.....the sky is the limit when you financially well off. But unfortunately, most Christians have been brainwashed into believing the poverty is a badge or righteousness or that God hates wealth and don't want His people to be well off financially.

    I understand what the parables that Jesus told means which means that God's people are use the gifts that He has given them to bless others. Some people's gifts or passion is health, so they should use that help others to be healthy or they could sett up a health food store and have people who work in their store with knowledge in nutrition. Some people's passion is in business or the know how of starting a business, so they should use that to help others who want to start their own business to do so. God considers a child of God that sits on his or her gift or gifts as a wicked person because others could have been benefiting from the gift they have but did not.



    That is why Jesus said those who believe but did not see are blessed. You need to see and hear it but I don't.....with that kind of limitation you can't get anything done, you cannot please God. God wants us to function based on His reality and His reality is that before you see or create it you must believe it. Jesus said that when you pray believe that you have it and you will receive it. That's why also Jesus said that when a person lust at a women in his mind he has actually committed adultery.

    The one who heard it from God is the same one God told and wrote it down. I'm sure you believe a lot of things that you did not hear yourself but you trust it to be true.

    You are revealing the reason why you don't trust the Bible.......you think as most skeptics do, they themselves tend to make stuff up so they believe that someone or a whole bunch of people from different walks of life and different times all came together and agreed to fool people.




    That is not reason why Jesus said what He said......He did not want the masses to know because then they would try to make Him King then and there. The messiah is prophesied to be king but first He must be crucified. Jesus left and went away when the masses want to make Him king.

    John 6:15 (ASV)
    15 Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone.

    Jesus never had to say it;His very action and life proves that He is......His crucifixion and the eye witness of His resurrection is enough. He is the only man recorded in the Bible that was crucified and did nothing against the Roman government....even Pilate said he saw nothing that was worth Him being crucified for. But despite the king ( Pilate, the king could not prevent Bible prophecy from being fulfilled), Jesus still was crucified.


    Sometimes it’s best to ignore question(s), because to explain would be too lengthy and in the end one would not be convinced anyway, and this is such a time.
     
  6. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Good point BFSmith@764. So when there is no law which governs particular aspects of life, then there is freedom to perform as one wishes in regards to that aspect of life. Thanks for providing that scripture... I will bookmark that reference.
     
  7. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Without law there is no freedom and no security.....one could not be sure of anything. A farmer could not be sure if he planted wheat was he was going to get wheat or something else? Life would be a living nightmare as nothing in life could be counted on to work or be their when we need it.....God keeps the laws of physics working as it should....so up is up and down is down and matter is solid and liquid is liquid and boats and ships still floats and plans still fly and so on.

    But when I use the word law I'm not talking about a list of rules that someone else wrote and tells us that we have to obey them. I talking about having personal principles or integrity that one lives by.....when you have principles you don't need anyone to give you a set of rules, because by your own nature you are like God that is bound by His word.....it is God's nature to do exactly as He said and so should we. After all, to be a son of God is far deeper than most people are even willing to imagine. Its also means that we have to be careful what you say, because if have integrity you are going to have to do what you promised and there are several examples of this in the Bible.

    It is the lack of integrity why there are so many laws and why for example, when one gets into a contract the individual have to sign their name on the bottom. If people had integrity it would not be necessary to sign a contract.....just the fact that you say you are going to do what you promised would be enough. It is so important that God said He is going to write His laws in the hearts (mind) of the Children of Isabel and give them a heart (mind) of flesh. But it won't be limited to the House of Israel but all Nations will one day have integrity.

    Jeremiah 31:33 (ASV)
    33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:


    Christians who say the law is done away don’t read scriptures like the one above or simply dismiss it, which is a prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled and will be in the second resurrection.
     
  8. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Those are also some interesting thoughts, however at the highlighted text above, it is easy to refute your statement by simply saying that 'yes, there would be the individual freedom to provide your own security.' Are you also a Theist? If no, then why are you saying that God keeps the laws of physics working as it should. If you are a Theist, then show me in the Bible where it is stated that 'God keeps the laws of physics working as it should." Presumptions need proof. Irrefutable proof is better, then there is nothing to argue.

    I concur. The laws of logic (including the logical fallacies) as well as the laws of physics are both man-made laws. Did God write them as it is claimed that He wrote the Ten Commandments? Principles... as in the private type... sure I have principles... so does the criminal that is spending life in prison... Now whose principles are more valid?

    Again I concur. "have to do what you promised"... Have I made a promise in this thread? Have I made a promise in this forum? I do not recall having said to anyone on this forum "I promise....." anything.

    Again no argument with me on those points.


    Unfortunately, we are not talking about the laws of God prior to this point. We have been talking about secular law (man-made law) which affects differing aspects of the lives of man. Thus my reasoning for asking for a code, rule, regulation, law, statute, TOS... anything man made that is construed as a mandate requiring all of mankind to abide by logic, reason, rational thinking, or abide by the scientific method, or to justify their beliefs. When someone will show me such a mandate that is obligatory to all of mankind, then I will cease in my request and will consider whether or not to start abiding by that new law.
     
  9. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    But in order to do that person would have some kind of principle that he or she is going to live by in order for that them to protect themselves. Not one single thing will ever function without some kind of law or principle. The only thing is do you have principles that you live by or does someone else have to make you live by their own principles/law because you don't have any? The lawless needs others to impose laws/principles on them.A world without laws or principles is very chaotic world where no one would survive.


    God did not literally wrote the laws of physic but He did created them and set it in motion and sustains it, and because of that we are able to function as we do. So man did not create the laws of physics but we operate under it and any violation of those laws has serious consequences. A criminal may have distorted or perverted principles. For example, a gang member may not have a problem murdering someone's family, but he sure would not like it if a member of his family were to be murdered......he's loyal to his family but he could not careless about someone else's family.

    Well, you don't have to literally say "I promise" to do as I said as long as it is something you said you were going to do or not do it becomes a promise that you have made.


    I don't believe that there is such a thing as secular laws as such......if you examine man's laws you would see that God's law address the same things as well(murder is a sin, theft is a sin, speaking lies against another person and sin to commit adultery). Just those four laws of Ten Commandments addressed most of the laws created by man, and I have not even gone into the spirit of the law. But if everyone had the character and nature of God, then all man-made laws would be obsolete because by principle everyone's nature and character would be good....beyond good even...Holy......one would not even need the Ten Commandments.
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Your comments cause me to think that you are only into church for the potential economic returns you might get from the members.

    As it says in 1 Peter 2:11-12 you won't need material things where you're going.

    [FONT=&quot]"1 Peter 2:11-12 = [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Friends, this world is not your home, so don’t make yourselves cozy in it. Don’t indulge your ego at the expense of your soul. Live an exemplary life among the natives so that your actions will refute their prejudices. Then they’ll be won over to God’s side and be there to join in the celebration when he arrives."[/FONT]
     
  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    God doesn't trust his angels and they bunk with him. Why would he trust man to do right without all of those hundreds of laws covering every aspects of man's daily life?

    [FONT=&quot]Job 15:14-16 = [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“People cannot really be pure. They cannot be more right than God!
    God does not even trust his angels. He does not even think the sky is pure.
    People are even worse. They are disgusting and dirty. They drink up evil like water.”[/FONT]
     
  12. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    That is my whole point entirely... I do have my own set of principles... and I live by those principles... and unless there exists some compelling set of principles (laws,codes, rules, regulations, etc.) that are capable of forcing me to alter my principles, then guess what... I live by my principles... So the man-made BS relating to logic, logical fallacies, scientific method, mathematics, etc., mean nothing to me as they (being man-made) have no authority over me. Even Einstein said that the laws of mathematics do not apply to reality.

    Who are you suggesting is the culprit that is 'lawless'? Even with laws, principles, codes, rules, regulations, principles, the world is still very chaotic... so what do all those laws prove? Nothing with regard to the conduct of the individual man or woman... each are inevitably going to do what they want to do, else they will succumb to a external force that they recognize as being greater than they are.



    Oh... really... if man did not write those laws of physics, then I suppose one day a scientist was digging in the ground and uncovered a slab of stone with the title "Laws of Physics" inscribed at the top of the slab. Uh huhh.

    As compared to what? The principles of someone else? Then you are suggesting that man-made laws have the ability to prevent someone from being all that they ever want to be? That would mean that the same man-made laws could be written that would prevent you and your spouse from producing children, or that you had no choice in freedom of religion or freedom of thought... Do you really want to continue down that road.

    Just like the people who pushed the button that launched rockets into Iraq or dropped the bombs of Nagasaki and Hiroshima killing innocent children who had nothing to do with world affairs. Are you a war-monger?


    "I will" is the famous words of another entity spoken of by Theists. "I will" Now who was that who spoke so highly of himself?



    They are laws written by man... they may well be copy-cat laws, but they are written by man. Bottom line.
     
  13. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Because man has a far higher purpose that angels. The receiving of the Holy Spirit at baptism one receives the Divine Nature of God. But not everyone who claims to be a Christian receives the Holy Spirit, in fact, most have not are clearly as Jesus prophecies are deceived.
     
  14. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That's not what Jesus said so it's best to watch your thoughts if you don't want to roast in hell fire.

    Matthew 5:21-22 (MSG) = “You’re familiar with the command to the ancients, ‘Do not murder.’ I’m telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother ‘idiot!’ and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell ‘stupid!’ at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill."

    Notice that the emotion -- anger -- is equivalent to the act of murder. And once you vocalize the emotion you will incur an additional penalty.
     
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen any angels?
     
  16. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm an anarchist/semi-nihilist (although not in the way you think) Atheist, but I hold my word to a very high standard.

    Law ultimately comes from someone's word: be it God's, the government's, etc. I merely have the radical idea that law comes from individual will rather than authoritarian sources.

    I value liberty and non-aggression. I require no such thing of anyone else, but beware that I'll defend these values if need be - if you try to assault me or invade my home.
     
  17. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    And my point was that it is not possible to live in a world without some kind of law or principle whether you are talking about your own or someone else's that is imposed, and that God is not into lawlessness.


    Anyone that is lawless especially from God's position. From God's point of view human beings are lawless regardless of their laws because man is inconsistent but God is not.


    The law of physics existed long before man wrote them down. For example, Newton did not discover gravity God created it. You are assuming that just because God did not literally wrote the laws of physics on stone like the Ten Commandments it means that they never existed until some man wrote it on paper. And by the way, the Ten Commandments existed long before God literally wrote them on a tablet of stone.....The Ten Commandments is a reflection of God's nature.The fact is it was not man that created the law of physics, so man cannot be the author of the law of physics, even though he can claim it as his. Its not uncommon for people to lay claim to something that existed before they were born.....people put labels on fruits and vegetables but its not their creation.....they did not invented the Apple or the Orange.



    I gave you one example.


    Like I said before, man is inconsistent but God is totally Holy.


    Maybe you did not get my point.


    Yes, they are copy-cat laws.
     
  18. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Yes! I have noticed that, and I have also noticed who (what group of people) are the most frequent users of such language (words). Guess what group that is.
     
  19. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    There is really no such thing as a true anarchist because not even an anarchist could live in that kind of world. It would mean that everyone would be praying on each other. You would not be able to grow food because everyone would be stealing from each other. You could not own a home or even rent one because everyone be too busy trying to feed off each other and would be braking into your home taking your stuff and you would be doing the same thing as well. No one would work and eventually everyone would die-off or be forced to change. But as I said in another post, from God's position man is lawless because man is not consistent in the way they behave.
     
  20. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    What's your point? I'm simply stating what scripture reveals.
     
  21. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    Your point is senseless considering that we both recognize the import of laws (whether they be our own principles or that written according to societal standards).

    My point is simply that no-one on this forum has the authority to attempt to force me to abide by a set of laws (non existing laws in the case of logic and scientific method as applied to every man) that are one sided and are written by man. As for Gods laws... I have no argument with you about those laws nor what God expects from man in regard to those laws. As for the laws of physics and how they have been around since before man wrote them down... well, prior to the writing of those laws, those laws weren't so obvious now were they? Were they posted on some apple tree perhaps in the Garden of Eden?

     
  22. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Well, as long as you, me and others are going to be on this forum if we want to continue to be here we will have to abide by the rules of this board. I may not agree with all the rules, but I strive to follow them not because I have to but because for now the rules are tolerable.

    But how do you know that the laws of physics was not obvious......did not people see leaves fall from trees and all the other observable laws of nature? They just took it for granted that's all. God knew about those law as I said, because He was the one that created that law. And a law is something is consistent and sure and when violated there are consequences.
     
  23. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    The rules of this forum say nothing which mandates the use of logic, reason, rational thinking, use of logical fallacies, scientific method, etc.: therefore, the rules of this forum do not dictate in that regard.

    No! They did not see laws of nature... they saw leaves fall from the trees and other observable events of nature.

    In other words, they presumed.

    The Bible I believe is your source authority on what God did and what God said. So where in the Bible did God say anything about the laws of physics and or the laws of nature?

    .
    Man made laws are not consistent... That is why they are in a constant state of flux... the laws of physics are also changing ... more slowly than the other man-made laws, but they do change.
     
  24. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My politics are not normative - they are descriptive. We live in a world where power wins out in all cases whatsoever. This situation remains no matter what we do. The state is merely the use of power for 'noble' intentions.

    I suggest you read For a New Liberty. Private systems are in many cases more effective than state run authoritarian ones.

    In any case, feel free to do what you will - I am unable to stop you. I do not hold you or anyone else to the same standard as I, for each person's values differ. Nonetheless I'll continue to advocate liberty for the same reason you advocate religiosity and security under the state - it's who I am.
     
  25. stig42

    stig42 New Member

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    um how do you know theirs a god how do you know it always keeps its word? what's it mean to say he keeps creation functioning like it should how do you know which bits are actually creation or weather some thing existed by themselves or not? who's determining how it should function?
     

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