Biblical Creation vs Evolution- the age of the Earth

Then what in the bible are you wanting to teach? And what class?

 

Post some real data from real science sources that say 1/2 life of the earths magnetic field is accurate. Or that it is constant. Or that there is even a 1/2 life to the electromagnetic waves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field#Intensity

Again, you can't pull stuff from one's backside and expect rational people to believe it.

 

Of course it is; when based on nothing but fuzzy feelings and unsupported claims.

That's why one makes a leap of faith. You leap over the irrational or illogical aspects of a belief and choose to believe anyway.

 

It isn't a religion though. I don't understand the reason for many theists referring to atheistic views as "religion" is. Is it supposed to be some form of insult?

 

To combat an opposing ideology, I assume. Besides, I know you have cherished beliefs of your own. I'd like to ask out of curiosity, if your religion was ever proven completely false, how would you respond? Would any of your views and opinions change if they weren't able to be supported by a deity?

 

In a way, absolutely. Beong completely unable to use reason or evidence to elevate their own authoritative,faith based claims to the status enjoyed by evidence based determinations, they are left with no choice but to try to drag evidence based knowledge down into the murk where their faith based nonsense resides.

 

Isn't "atheistic naturalism" preferable to the alternatives though?

 

Really?
..never mind .

 

Obviously, if one's beliefs are in line with atheistic naturalism. ..but how does one arrive at that conclusion?
Divine inspiration?
State sponsored Indoctrination?
Personal study and experience?

 

I thought i was attempting a rational debate... but since I'm arguing for Intelligent Design, that automatically nullifies my arguments, and immediately defines me as a 'likes of you!'

..funny how debating with progressive indoctrinees works that way..

 

I'm not sure. It must depend on how other factors in life affect each individual. For instance, what led you to believe as you do? For myself at least, I'm an agnostic. But I can't in good conscience do anything that opposes my viewpoints and personal opinions. Thus I prefer a "level playing field" than that of theism's objective morality. The existence of a deity is horrifying to me, but I have to be brave, as all I feel is the need to fight for my benefit in this world. Why would anyone prefer the alternatives? Is it the appeal of guaranteed victory?

 

I see. That sounds similar to what I was saying to the "anti-evolutionists" on this thread some months ago. You worded it more clearly than I did though.

 

By default. Once the faith-based nonsense and magical horseshit is whittled away, that is what is left.

 

..so you believe..

Are you sure you're not indoctrinated in your beliefs? How would you know?

There are basically two possibilities for the origins of life, the universe, and everything:

1. Naturalism
2. Supernaturalism.

Goddidit, or Nuthindidit. There is a reason for our existence, or there is not.

You believe it is #1. Fine. That is a popular, growing belief system/worldview. But it is not Absolute Truth, or Proven Settled Science. It is only your belief or opinion.

It is only religious bigotry to ridicule those who believe differently than you. So when you mock, jeer, and ridicule Christians, you are just expressing religious bigotry.. pretending YOUR beliefs about the nature of the universe are Right, and stupid theists and Christians are wrong.

That is contrary to the traditional American values of freedom of conscience, and the right to believe and express those beliefs without censorship. That is why i see a growing intolerance for Christianity, and wholesale attempts to belittle, shout down, or censor anything relating to the Christian worldview. Almost every institution in America is complicit with this attack on the Christian worldview, and they have constructed a Narrative, to dehumanize them and provoke fear of them in others.. even though it was Christian ideology that provided the basis for America, human equality, and religious freedom.

 

Nothing? What? The universe is something.

Are you sure maybe you weren't brainwashed as a child?

Being a sack of chemicals whose purpose it is to pass on the genetic information contained within is a reason.

And you confuse the ridicule of ideas with the ridicule of people. That behavior by you offers us some insight, you know. Notice that a scientist does not have to take personal offense at criticism of electromagnetic theory, because he can just step aside and let the critics wrangle with the mountains of evidence. The scientist does not have to internalize these beliefs, as the support for the truth of them is purely external and not 100% reliant on "because I say so".

Now, contrast this with the people who hold faith based belief and behave as you just did. These people don't have this luxury that the scientist has. Their beliefs rest solely on their own authority and credibility, so criticism of the magical horseshit (like, zombie Kings and fake, ridiculous boat stories, and magical prophets who talk to gods, and miracles) causes them to take personal offense. And, due to having no external evidence and due to the fact that their judgment is clouded by the internalization of these beliefs, they actually make the (non trivial) error of confusing criticism of these ideas with criticism of themselves...

...as you just did.

 

You immediately go to the phony narratives. I'm not interested in defending your straw men, and since your reply had nothing to do with mine, there is little more to say. Enjoy your mocking and ridicule.. it's bigotry, but at least you seem to enjoy it...

 

Which were....? This is a discussion. Have the common courtesy of explaining yourself without being prompted.

Except for directly rebutting three very specific claims you made. As anyone can read for themselves.

 

Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. ~Arthur C. Clarke

We are here. That's about all we really 'know'. Some believe that a Superior Being was responsible for everything. Some believe it all happened by random chance. ..some have a blend, but they still toss a god in their belief system, for whatever reason.

It seems to me these are just different beliefs/opinions about these 2 diametrically opposed worldviews.

I would expect, from a rational point of view, that one of these worldviews is correct, and the other is not. A seeker of truth might go their whole life, and not come to a clear conclusion. Others dogmatically declare THEIR opinion as 'Proven Fact!', but there is nothing empirical or factual to back their opinion.

It seems to be, that whoever expresses their opinion the loudest, or injects the most epithets, or seems the most indignant or intense must be right. But i have found that Truth does not work that way. It is more like mining gold, or searching for treasure. Some seem able to search for it, others do not. I don't know why that is.

 

And some people are just fine with admitting what is actually true for ALL people:

"I don't know."

 

So you believe in the supernatural over the laws of science?

 

I see. So then what would you do if your beliefs were proven to be entirely false? I've always been curious about how this would play out for Christians.

 

I would ask where in the "laws of science" that the supernatural cannot exist.

 

Since "supernatural" would inherently mean breaking at least one physical law of nature...I suppose the answer to your query would be, "everywhere, top to bottom".

That's why they are called "laws". If there are exceptions, they are not laws.

 

..reminds me of someone asking a farmer in the 80s, what he would do if someone gave him a million dollars. The old fellow scratched his head a bit and said, "Well, i guess I'd just keep farming 'till it was gone.."

If i am mistaken about my perceptions of God and the universe:

1. What else is new.. i have a long life of being wrong.
2. My experiences and subjective encounters with a supernatural 'something' have proved to my cynical and skeptical mind, that there is something beyond the material. If i am mistaken, i am mistaken. ..nothing i can do about it.
3. My mind, senses, and reasoning are more credible to me than the dogmatic declarations of others.
4. I am already certain that my perception of God falls woefully short. See the old poem, 'The Blind Men and the Elephant', for an illustration.

Not much else to it.

 

Can you honestly blame them though? You accept Christianity because it matches your opinions. Don't get me wrong, I see the logic in it as this religion embodies what you want the world to be. Also, you are numb to opposing opinions, therefore you are emotionally immune to the flaws in the American system of government. For many though, the Christian worldview directly opposes their perspective. It damages enjoyment, and takes away their peace of mind. It also belittles humanity far worse than any human-based totalitarian regime ever could. This, even for open authoritarians like myself, is quite concerning. Especially being that I am an agnostic, not an atheist.