Biden will ‘make Abbas great again,’ says Israeli pundit

I am afraid that for a long time it has been almost required of anyone who wanted an elite position in the US to only praise Israel. This is now descending on my country the UK and it has brought in the most disgusting 'fake news' I have ever seen with intelligent people who should know much better engaging in it - in case they are called antisemetic.

When Israel went for the two state solution, American Christian Zionists went beserk. They are the people who have put in the most into the settlements. They want 'Jews' to rule all of the area that their bible apparently says they must rule. They have what I have heard described as a 'genocidal hatred of Muslims'. They are the people who really are responsible for the US's position re Israel because they are I believe the biggests group of voters.

Ok so they were determined to push the most extreme groups in Israel to make absolutely sure there would be no 'two states solution' and from that time Netanyahu has been talking with them. They were Trumps biggest voting block.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/trump-pence-jerusalem-christian-zionism-connection/

I am not sure it is drifting towards Authoritarianism, Faction and Fascism. I think that is the way the most influencial right wing Christian Zionists are - they apparently would like a Theocracy in the US...and in Israel, Netanyhu has been in charge for a very long time and he has been wanting fulfil the work of his father who was secretary to Jabotinsky and his 'revisionist zionism' and its links to early fascism.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...tion-the-hidden-roots-of-israel-fascist-past/

As that article States Israel best friends now are the most far right Western countries there are and Netanyhu apparently (correctly) said Trump was Israel's best friend.

 

America is not responsible for "peace in the world," nor can America attain it, without broad-based, enduring cooperation from the world's major nations (Israel is not one of those nations). The world has been drifting away from US-led multilateralism for decades, and under Trump the US itself abandoned it completely. I'm afraid that All the King's Horses and All the King's Men will not fix that situation. The U.S. needs to leave the Old World and let them figure out their problems.

Not our problem. Israel began the proliferation of nukes in the region.

 

America's Mid East Policy has been run by Zionist - Israeli lobbies and traitorous "Israel Firsters" to such an extreme degree for so long it's hard to imagine what an even handed Mid East Policy would look like.

Additionally, the Symington Amendment prohibits all aid to Israel(1) and other non-signatories to the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) but yet the $ Billions continue to flow to Israel because no politician who hopes to see another term in office will stand up to Israeli lobbies.

A good start toward an even handed Mid East Policy would be to dust off and enforce old UN Resolutions 242 & 338 with the same militant enthusiasm that was used to enforce the UN Resolutions ejecting Saddam from Kuwait.
After all, Saddam seized Kuwait fair and square, right?

The primary reason that the US destroyed Iraq was because AIPAC demanded it:

“QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

A more realistic way for the US to begin an even handed Mid East policy and bring peace to the region would be to withhold all aid & impose sanctions on Israel until it ejects its criminal land thieves (aka "Settlers") from the West Bank.

As it is now, Israel's ruling Right Wing extremists can commit ethnic cleansing/genocide(2) and steal Palestinian land with impunity because there are no consequences except making peace impossible and Israel has never wanted peace anyway(3).

Why should Israel's expansionist Right Wing want peace when they can do and get anything they want as things are with the full knowledge that AIPAC's US politicians will support anything they do with American blood and resources?

Thanks,


(1) "Lawsuit Claims Aid to Nuclear Israel Illegal Under Symington Glenn Amendments"
https://www.corporatecrimereporter....ael-illegal-under-symington-glenn-amendments/

EXCERPT "A lawsuit filed in federal court in Washington, D.C. claims that United States aid to Israel is illegal under a law passed in the 1970s that prohibits aid to nuclear powers that don’t sign the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

Such aid violates longstanding bans on foreign aid to non-signatories to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) with nuclear weapons programs, the lawsuit alleges."CONTINUED


(2) “Nearly half of Israeli Jews believe in ethnic cleansing, survey finds”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/almost-half-of-israeli-jews-want-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html

EXCERPT “Almost half of Jewish Israelis believe Arabs should be "expelled or transferred" from Israel, a survey has found." CONTINUED


(3) "Israel Does Not Want Peace"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-does-not-want-peace-1.5253291

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise. In plain words: The builders of settlements want to consolidate the occupation, and those who want to consolidate the occupation do not want peace. That’s the whole story in a nutshell." CONTINUED


(4) "Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel"
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ys-american-troops-should-be-ready-die-israel

EXCERPT "US Third Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Richard Clark spelled out just such a scenario wherein US troops could be asked to fight and to die for defense of America Israel - even to the point of being placed under Israeli commanders responsible for battlefield decision making."CONTINUED

 

You have made up the above scenario - which is fine - perhaps there is an incident where this might have happened - but this in no way represents the entirety of the 80 year war. Those kids are throwing stones at the Tanks bulldozing their houses .. land taken illegally by Israel ..

Your next comment makes no sense - we are talking about sophisticated missile technology from Iran - you are talking AK-47s .. and should the opposite side in this war not have guns ? .. while the other drops 1000 lb bombs .. in crowded neighborhoods.

There are hundreds of examples of seriously heavy weapons being sent into areas known to contain innocent civilians .. because some Jihadi wandered by. They have a name for it .. is called "Targeted Assassination"

Not in a sense .. but in reality - you have moved the goalposts to another planet. Israel has good relations with Egypt, El Saud, even Jordan .. and numerous other nations in the region - but who are you kidding .. Israel has nuclear bombs.

We are talking the Palestinians

Look - so far you have not expressed much about this conflict other than the spoon fed propaganda narrative. and your position is way biased .. completely lacking objectivity.. one sided to the max.

You are obviously anti- Muslim .. likely even having some religious bias as most of us do .. but you need to alter that anti sentiment towards the Islamist - which you mentioned previously but had not well distinguished - in context of this 80 year blood feud.

Israel has done a ton of nasty things - and the Palestinians are no angels .. but they are nothing like ISIS - anymore than some fellow from some extremist fundamentalist Pentecostal cult is like the average Catholic.

Would you like a few examples ? .. and rather than listen to me ramble on ... how about listening to some of the Israeli Pilots who dropped those 1000 lb bombs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/25/israel

Can you imagine 27 US Pilots - doing this ? Well Try to .. as that is what these Israeli Pilots did - and they represent a far greater percentage of the Israeli air force ... than would be the case here.

We can go through example after example .. Israel has killed 10 x the number of children that the Pal's have - if you want to compare terrorist attacks .. Israel has way more - with way bigger weapons.

You wish to suggest a different metric - go ahead - but by these metrics - there is at least two bad sides in this Blood Feud .. which is why we call it a Blood Feud . .. and not some Holy Jihad to turn Israel into a Strict Sharia Nightmare...

Hmm .. but thinking thinking - perhaps Hezbollah should start to act like ISIS - as the US - and Israel for that matter - gives massive amounts of sophisticated military technology, support, and supplies to these radical Islamists.

This situation is far more complicated than you are giving credit.

 

"Original gospel texts"?

The only instance of Jesus' anger toward mankind I can recall is a parable re a curse on a fig tree. OTOH, a forewarning of Jerusalem's destruction is not in the same category as an authorisation of the slaughter of nursing mothers...

So you can change the Prince of Peace into the god of war. No need to quote the psychotic visions of Revelations which Jesus never read....

In any case, assertion that scripture is the Word of God, rather than the word of men in search of God, is untenable. Though the assertion in the Koran that Jesus is a prophet, not God, is obviously more real than the Trinity mythology.

The danger in scripture is in looking toward the catastrophe of the "end times", whereas human destiny is in our own hands.

We have created the UNUDHR. Now lets strengthen the machinery of the UN.

 

I have deep suspicions about the UN. It is a political body and was readily politicized.
Doesn't Israel cop about two thirds of all human rights violations, for instance? And
who is on the Human Rights Commission this year? Cuba, Venezuela, Iran? Don't know
but wouldn't be surprised.
No, Jesus never read Revelations - he spoke it to John.
Saying destiny is in our hands sounds kinda vague - not sure what it's supposed to mean.
Revelation gives us the fall of the churches, which has happened - is that 'destiny' ?

 

Ever read the story of 'the engineer', Mr Ayyash. Chief designer of the suicide
bombs that tore through Israel. The Israelis put some plastic explosive in a
phone and when he spoke into it they detonated it, killing him. Kind of wonder
why the Israelis didn't just nuke Gaza City, or at least, blow up the building they
knew he was in. Most nations would have done that. If I was Israeli dictator I
would offer Palestine Jerusalem, the Jewish temple, the whole West Bank -
under the proviso they end all land claims on Israel. And when the Palestinians
begin agitating for the rest of 'Palestine' I would drive them all into Jordan.
It's land the Palestinians want - not borders.

 

That would suit many Israelis - they would then be under no compulsion from Western
nations, and can do as they please when the Arabs talk about driving them into the sea.

 

It can be said that Israel is already 'ruler of the area.' Today she attacked Iranian targets
in Syria after Iranian proxies planted mines along the border.

 

Basically, I don't care what they want. This is about the US national interest, not the Israeli.

 

I hate to tell you but whatever Israel's Right Wing government wants it gets through the insidious machinations of US based Israeli lobbies and America's traitorous infestation of "Israel Firsters".

There is nothing in America's Mid East Policy that is in any way in US interests.

America has sacrificed thousands of young lives and $ Trillions in resources to make the Mid East safe for Israeli hegemony, expansionism and ethnic cleansing and what does America get in return:

Netanyahu: “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away”
http://web.archive.org/web/20060512...pecial_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html

America needs and deserves better allies.

 

Any government - whether on behalf of state, national or international law - is political.

In the case of the UN, great power rivalry forced the veto onto the UNSC, thereby emasculating the UN's international peace-keeping capacity from the start.

Nevertheless, international law has come a long way since Jehovah authorized genocide against the "7 nations greater than thou" (ie the nation of God's 'chosen people') in the 1300's BC. (according to Moses, Joshua and Samuel....)

Certainly Israel has ignored significant UN resolutions such as 181 and 242; but I admit the inability of the UN to establish those resolutions in both Israel and Palestine have resulted in the ongoing conflict driven by extremists on both sides (with peace-maker Rabin being a notable victim of said extremism).

The standard argument to abolish the UN. But as noted above it's the UNSC veto that should be abolished.

(The present situation re implementation of international law is like the SCOTUS attempting to implement law with every judge having a veto....)

So you say. Certainly, the UN needs to look more closely at the religious freedom clause in the UNUDHR article 18.
All the religious traditions of the world obviously can't be right as to the detail of their respective scriptures; and yet they all insist on the status of the 'true' religion. Terrorism has one of its causes right there, as 'warriors of God' fight it out. eg WB fundamentalist settlers illegally occupying palestinian territory, and ISIS fighters.

It means mankind can determine its future by learning from the past.

The "fall of the churches" has happened? Hopefully the demise of fundamentalist readings of all scripture is proceeding apace, and we might all soon agree with "love God and love one-another" (NT) . and "He who saves one life saves all mankind" (Koran)

 

No, today Israel is dependent on the United States. The US and her citizens want Israel to be doing what she is doing. Israel has always hidden behind Imperial Powers.

Israel needs no excuse to attack and kill Iranians other than wanting them dead and gone. Iran is a particular problem to her because left on her own Iran would very much be in competition with Israel to be the Leader of the area something neither SA or Israel want as they both want to be it. The entire thing of pretending for decades that Iran has wmd's and putting sanctions on her and destroying her people by that denying them life saving medical care and so on, has been because of this fear that it may be Iran rather than Israel or Saudi Arabia who has the biggest say in the ME.

 

Iran is developing WMD's. There's no argument about that. It has long denied its nuclear program - going back
decades. It's in for the long haul with becoming a military nuclear power. The result will be particularly tragic -
when Iran has The Bomb then so too will Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey. That's the end of nuclear non-proliferation.
Not that it matters - a news report yesterday mentioned Germany's frustration with the double game Russia and
China play with North Korea's nuclear program (arguing about definitions of words in UN resolutions for three years.)
As soon as South Korea, Japan and Taiwan go nuclear then China might take stock of what they have created. So
too with Russia and Ukraine.)
Without Israel both Iraq and Syria would have gone nuclear long ago. You can say that Israel represents Western
influence in the Middle East.
Israel's issue isn't with Iran being the "leader" of the Shiite world but the nature of the Iranian govt itself.

 

The fall of the churches in Revelations. This was written when Christianity was growing exponentially.
It would have been strange reading to many, particularly the references to 'no more the lighted candle,
no more the voice of the bride and bridegroom..." and references to this church's temporal, political and
and power - not to mention idols.

Israel is NOT responsible for two thirds of all the human rights issues in the world. Just Hamas itself,
with its dictatorship, child soldiers, terrorism, refusal to do a treaty with Israel, weapons smuggling,
murder of its opponents etc ought to get a mention. Then there's China's 're-education camps' for a few
million Muslims, its control of Hong Kong, surveillance of its own citizens, organ harvesting of prisoners,
sinking fishing boats, wolf-warrior diplomacy etc ought to get a tiny mention too.
And we can go on, nation by nation - beginning with how Arab nations treat their own people.

 

Do YOU believe it was in America's 'national interest' to ignore what Japan and Germany
were doing in the 1930's, 1940's? (ignore the desire of Roosevelt to challenge both nations.)

 

1) They are enriching uranium to weapons grade. Something Obama got them to stop.

2) Iran has the technological base needed to make nukes. If they really wanted them, they would already have them. The American Right has been claiming they are close to getting nukes for 30 or 40 years. This is a bargaining chip that they will use when Biden comes calling.

3) That could be true, which is why Trump killing the JCPOA was batsh*t crazy.

4) That deserves it's own thread, doesn't belong here.

5) Not Iraq, Saddam was incompetent.

6) Now that's funny. To a limited degree, you have that backwards, we represent Israel's interests. Also known as the tail wagging the dog.

7) It's both, and it's obviously both. Iranian strategy is defensive. They have developed enormous influence in the region. Take the Hezbollah as an example. They are armed and funded by Iran, and if Israel attacks them, Iran increases their aid. In addition, they have other alliances that collectively inhibit Israeli ambitions. They could also be used if Israel does something Iran doesn't like. Israel wants total dominance, and to get it they need America to devastate Iran. Which is what Israel has been trying to get us to do for a very long time.

 

I have read many stories - not sure why you would bring this one up.. It is true that Israel has been stealing Palestinian Land - and Yes .. this is largely about land.

 

Yes, and at a time when much of the basic dogma was being hotly disputed eg Arians, Marcionites disputing the Trinity mythology. etc.

There was plenty of strange reading to go around. You have latched onto one tradition. That's the problem.

Of course not. But without the UN, Israel would not have come into existence at all:

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/u-n-votes-for-partition-of-palestine

November 29, 1947
U.N. votes for partition of Palestine
Despite strong Arab opposition, the United Nations votes for the partition of Palestine and the creation of an independent Jewish state.

But like I said, the UN was emasculated from the start, because of the forced imposition of the veto on the UNSC (resisted by many of the founding nations in 1946), so the UN was not able to carry out its function as adjudicator of international law.

Therefore the matter was settled in the old fashioned way: Israel simply proclaimed its own existence and went to war against the opposing Arabs. The rest is history.

Some reflections:
1. It's strange that Israel had to wait 2000 years until the UN was created in 1946, in order to be recreated itself, just one year later.
2. Jerusalem through its 3000 year relationship with the three Abrahamic religions might indeed have fulfilled a unifying destiny in the world (as envisioned in Revelations) , if UN res 181 had been able to be implemented.
3. As things are turning out now (with Israel illegally authorizing building on east Jerusalem territory even just this week), it will only stand as a symbol of the oppression of one group by another.

Yes...this world certainly needs international law, to overcome the chaos of war and poverty.

 

An "international law" exists, in part. It is widely dismissed by any nation when it suits them,
witness the International Law of the Sea and how it is ignored by China. Or the Medium Range
missile treaty, ignored by one of its own signatories (Russia) and not signed by another (China.)
Such a law would probably ban blasphemy laws, and these would be ignored by many Muslim
nations --- so there you go.
The reference to future churches with their idols, temporal power and such was a pointer to what
would happen to Christianity in general centuries into the future. The doctrines you mention, including
the Trinity, cannot in any way reshape Christianity of the bible.

 

The Jews, particularly the right wing settler and Haredi types (on the nose with many mainstream
Israelis) hold that all of Palestine belongs to the Jews - much the same as hardline Palestinians
hold all Palestine belongs to Arabs.

 

Yes, Iraq. This nation did have WMD's and used them on Iranians and Kurds, among others I suppose.
But France was helping Iraq become a nuclear power. A few Israeli F16's put paid to his ambition. At the
time even America was incensed at the Baghdad attack - but when Sadaam invaded Kuwait they finally
understood what a nuclear power Iraq would have meant for world peace.

 

That's the problem; if international existed, then it could NOT be "widely dismissed by any nation".
(I will use the analogy again: if the judges of the SCOTUS each had a veto, then rule of law would not exist in the US).

And the deeper problem behind that is: attachment of individuals to their own culture and national power has hindered the establishment of international law. That's why I mentioned the need to examine scripture as truth, as a part of the puzzle that needs to be solved if we are to establish international law.

Explained above. Are you ready to be part of the process required to implement international law? Of course not...

See above. ALL cultural systems are temporal and subject to obsolescence. Meantime the "Peoples of the Book" have to live with one-another.

How about ONE state of Palestine-Israel, with Jerusalem it's symbolic capital, given the prominence of that 7th century Islamic golden dome on Jerusalem's skyline.....a shrine that is built on the foundations of Herod's short-lived Jewish temple (though there is some controversy whether that is the site of Herod's temple).

 

Who cares what they hold - The agreement by which Israel exists sets its borders - annexing land outside is a violation of international law.

That is square 1 - and we move on from there. but hey .. US did this with Kosavo .. Russia with Crimea .. China wants Taiwan - why should Israel not just take what they want .. why not ..