BREAKING: Trump’s First Legislative Effort Fails as G.O.P. Pulls Bill to Repeal Obamacare

It's no more "absurd" to expect US taxpayers to compensate them for their misfortune. Taxes are not charitable contributions to be meted out by liberals. Government has a funtion, and beyond managing communicable disease, no moral or financial obligations. Longevity isn't a constitutional provision.

 

Why waste the healthcare dollar?

 

No, "success" is not subjective. It is - in the sentence I wrote - entirely objective. Obama succeeded in getting legislation passed. Trump failed to get legislation passed.

Whether you consider to be the legislation a success or a failure is a different issue. The issue for this thread is that Trump PROMISED to get something done right after he became president and he FAILED to fulfil that promise. He broke his promise.

 

No difference then between good legislation, and bad? You'll be touting proposed tax, education, and immigration reform bills upon passage then?

 

A little vague. Care to expound?

 

I suspect that for most people, they don't want other people to pay for them per se. Most people think that socialising the cost of health care is sensible, because most people don't actually need much in the way of health care for most of their lives, but when they do it can be very expensive. Like the fire department. You will probably never need it, but if you do, you don't want them to rock up to your house and expect a check for $50,000 before they unload their hoses.

If you want decent health care, you should just copy the Swiss system:
- everyone must have health insurance
- companies pay for accident insurance (even accidents when you are not on the job), individuals pay for health (illness) insurance
- all health insurance companies must offer a mandatory minimum form of coverage to anyone who asks for it. They also offer optional additional coverages at extra charge.
- as for the minimum coverage, no health insurance company can refuse you. They must give you the minimum coverage. they must also give you the additional coverage if you agree to pay for it.
- premiums are based on only two factors: age and where you live. You will pay exactly the same as your next door neighbour
- people with low incomes are subsidised for their premiums
- you can see whatever doctor you want (if they are taking new patients)

I've lived and had medical treatment in several countries. The Swiss systems beats every other system by a country mile. And everyone I spoke to who lived there (and came from anywhere else) agreed. Just copy Switzerland.

 

I didn't say that. I am measuring Trump by his own promise, which can be measured objectively.

Trump made a promise to get legislation passed repealing and replacing Obamacare. He has failed.

Obama promised to get legislation passed for comprehensive health care reform. He succeeded.

 

Everyone actually paying taxes pays for government run health care for themselves AND those who don't work.

 

He can not submit a Bill to Congress which will not get passed because it will not be voted on.
Ya know, just like Trump.

 

Too bad it's failing slowly all on it's own.

 

Why don't you address the point where I stated I already paid, through my taxes, premiums, copays, prescription payments, deductibles, more then the average French person pays, which is 21%?

Oh, right.

Because it destroys your entire argument.

**** off with that noise.

Health Insurance as a for profit industry is destined to fail. End of story. Nothing you have said has addressed my point. Typical, since none of you have any real arguments here.

The entire discussion from the right is vacuous and inane sound bytes from Limbaugh, Hannity, or other "freedom loving" patriots.

Laughably absurd.

 

Yeah, does the rest of the western world look at us and scratch their heads over our cowboy myth mentality?

 

Sure, I accept that. I'll even concede it was a poorly conceived replacement. However, we both know the issue hasn't been resolved. I'd say there's a good chance Trump will now engage Dems in negotiating an ACA fix, as the GOP failed to put a better proposal on the table. The Dems will make some concessions, and Trump will secure continued funding. Believe it or not, Trump was elected to negotiate equitable solutions to common interests. His election was as much an indictment of GOP inaction, as Dem policies.

 

Switzerland's costs are outrageous.

Here's the thing. Healthcare is already subsidized and socialized, it's capitalism making the system worse. I for one don't mind paying my fair share for healthcare.

But I am sick and tired of being asked to pay:

Taxes
Premiums
Deductibles
Co-Pays

Getting worse coverage for it. It's -absurd-. Our system now forces the young to subsidize the old. I am sick of that. Just charge me a flat tax rate, and call it a ****ing night.

This isn't brain or rocket science. Inflation in health care markets are explicitly linked to the free market.

End. Of. Story.

 

I stand corrected. I should have said...
Actually, he closes up shop MOST weekends to head South and play golf.

 

It doesn't change the fact that your god said it was OK to kill toddlers and for conquering armies to take virgin girls for themselves.
I guess you're OK with people dismissing the words of god and substituting their own moral values.

 

Health care costs in Switzerland are high, but they are still much lower than the costs in the US.
For 2015, health care costs per person in USD
1. USA $9,451
2. Luxembourg $7,765
3. Switzerland $6,935
4. Norway $6,567
5. Netherlands $5,343
...
12. Canada $ 4,608
...
14. France $4,407
...
17. UK $4,403

Switzerland is up there, but not "outrageous" and it is definitely lower than the US.

 

Single payer eliminates the additional administrative costs of insurance companies, HMO, PPOs, changing drug schedules.

Single payer models are not all the same. VA is government owned and operated hospitals with doctors as employees.. It is also anywhere from 36% to 40% higher than Medicare or Private healthcare... running over $12,000 per patient compared to $7,000 per patient. In short VA is the most expensive healthcare in America.

Medicare is single payer with private delivery... and it works. It will also bring healthcare costs down for all Americans.

Trump is woefully ignorant about healthcare and his off the cuff promises to fix healthcare. And, there is a human toll to his smug declarations about allowing ACA to explode while blaming both Democrats and Republicans for a crappy, patchwork repair.

 

It's still massively lower in the UK, Canada, France, etc.

Those systems are the ones we should emulate, not another mixed-socialist/capitalist frankensystem like the one we have now.

It's absurd.

 

Swiss healthcare costs are far less than ours.

There is NO such thing as free market healthcare. That some idiot's quip.. sounds catchy? Its meaningless.

Do you shop for healthcare when you are laying under a bus? Does grandpa wait for pacemakers to come on sale?

When you go to the hospital do you order your own tests, x-rays, procedures, surgery or medications?

The patient in hospitals is NOT the customer. The attending physician is the customer.

 

So, you don't believe the Bible is the Absolute True Word of God. The problem is that many do and many atrocities have been committed in His name.

However, this thread is about Trump and ACA repeal, so I'll comment no further on the subject of the Bible or the Koran or their followers.

 

Note: If we're going by cost, then you clearly should be supporting a French of UK style or even Canadian system, since clearly they are doing it far better then the Americans, or the Swiss.

No need to hide; just admit you don't like single payer, and the only reason is because you want to legislate responsibility, instead of convincing the public that we should adopt your belief system.

Another note: I never said it was strictly free market. I said it was socialized capitalism. And the capitalism part is what is making it untenable in the US.

 

Correct!

 

To conclude, I said GOD did not write the books. Did the Bible accurately report what GOD wanted out there as his message? Few parts of the Bible speak to that. But in the parts that do, men that wrote the Bible claim that.

 

Based on my reading your posts, I think you hit 100 percent right. Now I know I missed posts of yours, but thus far, a gold star is yours.