They don’t use that word of course. But What would happen if you remove the fertilized egg from the women?
Human females have a placenta that exchanges materials between the female and the fetus. The placenta suggests that, for mammals, the relationship between a mother and her fetus is actually symbiotic rather than parasitic. One indicator that the placenta encourages a symbiotic relationship between the mother and the fetus is that the placenta consists of two components the chorion that develops from the fetal blastocyst and the dicidius(sp) that develops from the mother's uterine lining. The placenta is necessary for a fetus to survive through pregnancy and simply could not function if the mother's own body did not contribute material to that placenta. In addition, a woman's body is capable of miscarrying a fetus or preventing a fetal blastocyst from implanting in the uterine wall, but in every case that leads to a live birth, the woman's body does not do this. Instead, if the woman's body viewed the fetus as a parasite, you'd have the woman's immune system attacking the fetuses as a matter of course. None of this actually makes a difference here as the discussion has nothing to do with physiology and everything to do with personal opinion of fetal personhood status.
If a fetus is symbiotic what does it give the woman? Tell me what she gets from it and what an unpregnant woman doesn’t get.
The point is the fetus lives off the woman, it uses her to sustain it's life just like a parasite ...without her it dies...
You stated that you were opposed to abortion because it was murder and then you went ahead and elected to murder a fetus in that example. Can you not recognize the cognitive dissonance in that position? That is NOT an answer to the question that was asked. The woman was going to die if you did not murder the fetus in the example. The death of the woman would NOT have been murder. However you chose to commit murder in order to save her life. You placed a greater value on her life than you did on the life of the fetus that you murdered in the example. WHY did you place a greater value on her life?
In all probability he is arguing with himself against all reason, logic, science and Constitutional rights.
No. There is no cognitive dissonance because like I already said, I am not against all forms of murder. Because she is conscious, and a thinking, feeling, breathing human. However, the fetus (most likely) has not developed any central system, nor any of those traits listed above. So, if both their lives are in danger, and if I can only save one, I would choose to save the woman. In all other cases of abortion where the life of the woman is not threatened, I would choose the fetus over the woman, because saving a human life (the fetus') is more important.
Huh? Where did you even get that from? Of course women are humans lives, too. I do have something in mind but I won't say it because it might be against the rules. But I will give you an idea in a way that most people can sympathise with: imagine there is another genocidal dictator on the rise. The modern-day Hitler. And he wants to kill off an entire race of people. Would you not say it's appropriate to murder him?
From YOUR post: Puppy said: ↑ No. There is no cognitive dissonance because like I already said, I am not against all forms of murder. Because she is conscious, and a thinking, feeling, breathing human. However, the fetus (most likely) has not developed any central system, nor any of those traits listed above. So, if both their lives are in danger, and if I can only save one, I would choose to save the woman. In all other cases of abortion where the life of the woman is not threatened, I would choose the fetus over the woman, because saving a human life (the fetus') is more important."""""""" So you think murder is OK if you approve?
That would be assassination and though frowned upon it would be justified by most people. It does not however have anything to do with Abortion for several reasons: 1) A ZEF is not a person by definition and is incapable of even rudimentary neural function making it incapable of genocide. 2) Abortion deals with One(1) individual human and her rights vs. the rights of a people to exist. 3) The actions of a Government/Military fall under international guidelines vs. national law, let alone personal opinion.
No. I did not say I personally approve of murdering genocidal dictators. I was just giving an example that most people can agree on. Ugh...I did not say any of those things. I was merely showing him how murder can sometimes be justified.
Why not call a zygote a toddler? You would get more emotional mileage. I just don’t understand how a zygote would die when it isn’t alive
I cannot say that openly on the forum because I might be banned. Because it's not a toddler. What have I said that made you think I was trying to get "emotional mileage" (whatever that is) So you think zygotes are dead? If this is true, where do millions of LIVE babies come from?
Which saves you from explaining how you approve of some murder. How CONVENIENT....and isn't doing something for convenience some sort of "sin" or bad thing according to you?
I fail to see how it is even important anyway. This thread is about abortion, not, "what are some forms of murder that Puppy approves of".
Then "puppy" should not have brought it up and continued talking about it as if it had something to do with abortion which it doesn't.....I'm glad you finally saw that.
Derideo asked me whether I would choose to save the fetus or the life of a woman, and then he asked me why I would choose to murder the fetus. So in a way, he brought it up and I am just responding to it.
Thank you for conceding that you will murder a fetus under that set of circumstances. Now let's see where exactly where you draw the line of "importance" for the fetus. A doctor determines that if the pregnant woman gives birth she will suffer from severe consequences to her health for the rest of her life. Would you murder the fetus given these findings? An ultrasound establishes that the fetus has an anomaly that will result in both disabilities and a shortened and painful life span. Would you murder the fetus given these findings? The pregnant woman has no support structure and is unable to work owing to a pre-existing condition. If she gives birth she won't be able to support and raise the child. Would you murder the fetus given these findings? An underage teenager was sexually assaulted by a close male relative and impregnated. Would you murder the fetus given these findings? A women is abducted and raped and as a consequence becomes pregnant. Would you murder the fetus given these findings?
