Can an a Christian God exist?

Nonsense, look at the evidence. Why do we not see life on the other planets? The universe is random. Our planet may be a minuscule chance of life in a vast universe.
Where are the verifiable miracles or evidence of a creator? Be intellectually honest.

 

Parents do not shield a child from all mistakes. The child learns and grows from its mistakes, and some mistakes are severe. The hotter the fire, the stronger the steel.

God seems to be doing the same. In the Christian world view, life is a test in which God is sorting people, those that pass the test are suitable for what comes next. The idea that God is "all good" and should therefore not allow pain and suffering and He should intervene in the world is incompatible with that testing concept.

The "why" is not knowable since we have no real idea of God's motivation.

 

All of that is well and good, but knowing reality is important, and the pursuit of such has been the major cause for massive improvement in human life. The reality is that there are answers that don't require blind faith, and exploration of those is important to making correct decisions and ensure to the best of your ability that what you are doing actually is good.

 

Again, why would he need to test and sort? Why doesn't he know already? And he was the one that made those that failed, so why did they fail? What intrinsic failure did they possess, and why did they possess it? Why did he create that failure? Why is failure even a concept that exists?

Again, you can make this argument, but then you have to throw out all logic which leaves even more reason to think that this being doesn't exist because it is lost in the literally infinite field of possibilities that are now equally possible.

 

And you gave your robot on the train tracks only a slight chance of moving out of the way. Why didn't you give him what you have, complete free choice? Because to do so would have ruined your hypothetical. You can only convince yourself by setting up the parameters that suit you.

 

You assume that 1) God is omniscient and all powerful, and 2) that if He is then he will not create and will not tolerate error. That's the fundamental assumption of the threads proposition, its a proposition that meets a preconceived conclusion. Since the world is flawed, then based on your very narrow definition of God then God as you define Him does not exist.

Either your definition is wrong, or God does not exist. Since your definition is so extremely narrowly defined its much more likely that the definition is wrong.

Is God omniscient and all powerful? I don't know. To humans it probably appears to be the case, but in the larger universe - who knows? God obviously tolerates Satan's presence and his destructive activities, there must be some reason for that tolerance.

 

Oh absolutely. Everything in life isn't a religious experience, I don't believe. Discovery and inventions are wondrous things in and of themselves. And while there are those who say that Gods hand is in everything. I don't believe that we necessarily have to see his hand in it for him to be pleased at our pleasures in discovery and accomplishment. Iv'e noticed that subjects like this get more complicated and confusing, the more that it is discussed. So, sorry if I've gone there.

 

A lot of us see life as a miracle.

 

God has a lot of evil angels that do his dirty work. So why does God tolerate himself?

Psalm 78:49 (KJV) = "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them."

 

God allows "evil angels" so you can have a choice.....it is apparent.

 

Arrant nonsense!

An omniscient god would already know who would pass and who would fail before even running the "test"!

If your god actually wanted only those who could pass this "test" he would just have made his "creations" without the flaws that would cause them to fail.

Evolution is a far better explanation for learning from mistakes.

 

Ironic given that is exactly what religions do all the time!

 

Ironic since your definition is so extremely narrow that it doesn't include the probability that your god does not exist!

 

It seems like if he is not all powerful, then something is, or at least some aspect of our reality doesn't require a god to exist, so why can't the rest of it? Probably the only reason to still think there is a god is to explain how things came to be the way they are. but if there is some aspect that doesn't require a god, then why does anything? However, the question (which I did not word very well) is: can an all powerful all good god exist given that the world we live in is not all good.

What could possibly be the point of intentional error? And again, is a fundamentally more powerful force at work here?

But, within the confines of logic, it seems we have to conclude that because there is evil any god that might exist cannot be all good and all powerful.

The possibility of an alien with vastly superior technology is a possibility, and maybe that's what we call god, but a god made up by our imaginations still seems more likely. Also, if there is no god, then there almost certainly isn't a satan.

 

lol, no apology necessary, but yes, I am trying to keep the conversation within the context of the one question which I admit gets refined a bit as we go which is: Can an all-powerful all-good god exist given that there is evil or suffering in the world, without completely abandoning logic (ie saying we can't understand, or something to that effect).

 

So you seem to find the fact you have a choice whether to pursue those flaws or cast them off, threatening. Not enough discipline in your life to make the right choice??

 

Once again you engage in puerile ad homs because you cannot support the glaring flaws in your imaginary "creator".

But just to point out the OBVIOUS that you are missing it takes a great deal more discipline and introspection to be an atheist than it does to be a mindless follower of an arbitrary set of rules that were drummed into you since childhood.

 

Why is this life not heaven? I suppose because it is set apart as a test or a staging ground, where we can experience our bodies and free will, to love what we will and establish our loyalties in preparation for eternity.

 

I arrived at my own wise choice at the ripe old age of 25. I had had a taste of your temporal world and those that were gods unto themselves.

 

The 'flaw' is that you arent accounting for Free Will. If I create something and give it its own will, am I more obligated to deprive it of that will by forcing it to behave, or am I more obligated to allow it to exert its will to evil ends if it so chooses?

Not even omnipotence has the power of doing two contradictory things at once. Either we have the Free Will to be evil, or we dont have Free Will. Theres no third option.

 

Indeed God is omniscient. We can't even grasp that concept but I know this.... He knows your plans for the future. He knows where Derideo will be if he continues on his current path. He also knows where Derideo will be if he makes any number of different choices. He knows them all. What choices Derideo makes is up to Derideo. God loves Derideo that much that He gives him entirely free will.

 

I totally agree. Your ironic shot at me missed wide left. My spiritual beliefs don't involve or require any religion.

 

Everybody passes eventually. And there is no test. There are lessons to be learned and everyone learns them, even you.

 

No, because there is no reason to assume that just because the god is not a creator god that god cannot meddle.

 

If you have any actual scientific or objective evidence that the other side is there go ahead and post it. Stories by the way do not count.