Can an a Christian God exist?

Ok. That's up to you. It's a fantastical story to believe in a resurrection. However, if there is God how difficult is it to believe in it? The universe is stranger than we can imagine with a beginning from nothing to so much energy it will take trillions of years to end. How strange does it all have to be with parallel universes and infinite places.

I'm not interjecting my own opinion just giving you the beliefs of billions right or wrong.

 

Needy is your word. Perhaps IF He is loved He prefers it be voluntary. That requires no need only a preference. I prefer someone to love me because the just do not because I order it or IF I were a God create beings that love me.

How arrogant of me to even assume what God wants and wishes. I can merely speculate from a human perspective. I do know he has commanded us to love no other if one is to believe the Bible. Not saying what my thoughts are but I do understand the theology.

 

Then there is the point about the jealous god of the Christian bible.

Jealousy is a trait of the needy and insecure when it comes to things like love. So by his own admission the biblical god is needy! And it gets even worse when he demands that there can be no other gods either. His first 5 Commandments are all about himself.

This is not a sound basis for a loving relationship of any kind.

 

When you use a personal example in an attempt to demonstrate what you are obviously attempting to portray as a universal truth it is perfectly correct to use other more widespread examples to disprove that truth.

But if you are willing to admit that in actuality belief in god has no actual basis in reasoned examination except in your own mind then all is good. Or you can provde what you consider your " reasoned examination" and then we can discuss it's validity and application to belief in the general population.

 

Well it is an excellent example of an abusive relationship!

 

I think we can admit the above, and I certainly do, without conceding that "there is no God." We face a paradox in trying to "get to the bottom" of the origins of the cosmos: 1) nothing comes from nothing; but 2) if there is a primordial cause, what caused it?

My own view is that what we call "reason" works well enough when baking a cake, building a bridge, or diagnosing the measles. When we enter into the metaphysical, some of our rules of logic will just have to go out the window. We are, after all, crawling around on a speck of dust in the universe, our recent ancestors savage barbarians fascinated by fire, so what do you expect?

The usual response to the above is, "yeah, but in the meantime are we supposed to believe in a flying spaghetti monster?"

To this I answer no, you aren't "supposed" to believe in anything, but ... this includes not believing that some of the great minds in history -- Aristotle, Augustine, Newton, Spinoza, and Einstein, were all insane. They were not. Nor were they atheist, though Einstein was agnostic and Spinoza was sort of a weird pantheist.

I find Einstein's view the most convincing: [He] believed the problem of God was the "most difficult in the world"—a question that could not be answered "simply with yes or no." He conceded that, "the problem involved is too vast for our limited minds."

I personally practice Catholicism due to its tradition that I respect (it's the oldest institution on Earth and still going strong) and the good that the Church has done and continues to do, or at least inspire, for the poor all across the world. It also provides a reasonably workable framework for analyzing what we are and how we should live.

 

The more that I think about it........
the more that I realize that this is a brilliant question!

The original and most ancient Intelligence who evolved in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy........
who is first and foremost an inventor and scientist and engineer who planned and choreographed
an essentially infinite number of Big Bang type events throughout the past............

.... would tend to view the universe / Multiverse very differently than 99% of Christians
think that He / She / It does...........

.......
The first Intelligence began in.....?

1. 
   Carbon based life less than 5 billion years ago, on earth.
   7 vote(s)
   50.0%
2. 
   Carbon based life in outer space.
   2 vote(s)
   14.3%
3. *
   Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.
   5 vote(s)
   35.7%
4. 
   This is a new question that I am only now facing.
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
   

Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?


......

The real most ancient intelligence would regard religion as a tool to test people with.......
but would not really be religious as most Christians define religion should be!

 

Let's assume for a moment that somebody along the line of the traditional Lucifer really exists........

.... but... let's imagine that this Lucifer.... is very, very, very much like Stanley Milgram Ph. D?
who conducted the Milgram Experiment!

Just as all the volunteer and paid subjects in the Milgram Experiment never forgot about what they had been involved in......
so also........
we are all rather wrapped up in the experiment that we are in at this time.......

https://explorable.com/stanley-milgram-experiment

Milgram Experiment - Obedience to Authority

 

Yes, I've seen these kind of studies before. Bit frightening really.

 

Surely you need both matter and energy, no? Without the energy provided by the sun intelligence couldn't have developed.

 

I think believing in a god is a personal choice and is meaningful to those who wish to make that choice. Believing in some of the major religions given their history is problematical given the past behaviors of those religious organizations.

 

Gods presence is felt on earth and everywhere in creation (exccept Hell). Its stronger or weaker depending on how, i guess, 'in tune' you are with God, and perhaps in Heaven it is a perceivable or identifiable or quantifiable dynamic, or perhaps in Heaven its simply impossible for things like fear, hate or doubt to manifest, but Gods presence is the 'carrier wave' within which Love, Peace, etc can manifest in us. Without Gods presence, these things can't/won't manifest (Hell).

At least, such is my interpretation and my ability to communicate spiritual concepts using physical descriptions...

 

RE: Can an a Christian God exist?
※→ Diablo, et al,

The obvious interrogatives would be:

∵ Why would you make a distinction between "matter" and "energy"?

∵ Are we to assume that there is a direct connection between Stellar Radiation (cosmic generated energy) and Intelligence?​

(COMMENT)

Relative to the Question: To the best of our scientific knowledge to date, if you have one, you have the other. We could say that there exists an equivalency between matter (which has mass) and energy. Even in the case of a "massless" particles (gluons and photons) we believe them to be "force carriers" (the Strong force & the electromagnetic force). Force is that effect, --- that will change the relative motion of matter (both those with mass and massless). The presence of matter (energy stored in a given system or region of space) can curve spacetime, and thus alter or deflected all other energy; even light (gravitational lensing).

Relative to the Statement: We are not really sure how to define "intelligence" or (for that matter) the source of "knowledge." The polarized "Neuronal Activity/Conduction" in combination with "Synaptic Transmissions" are a stimulated bio-electric potential difference (of about -70 mV) in electrical charge between the inside and outside of a cell; even generate a small electric field. ∴ The activity of the brain can be, in some limited capability, monitored or even affected by an external electromagnetic force.

It is not known whether intelligence is merely the manipulation of information through bio-electric brain activities, or something completely different. But it appears to be energy dependent.

As to the question: Can an a Christian God exist? The obvious reply is "Why Not!"

Most Respectfully,
R

 

Sure. It's a human organization, developed and run by humans.

 

Matter and energy are manifested in different ways. Hitting the table and sticking your hand in the fire will explain that.
We can assume that sunlight was necessary to produce the only intelligent lifeforms we know, which are here on Earth. If you disagree, produce some intelligent lifeforms which did not originate on this planet. (Needs proof, not an old book).
If you posit a god which fits the christian theology then produce some proof for it. Wittering on about mass and energy won't cut it.

 

It means you cannot love two masters or two Gods. Everything is in context of the entire theology. Picking one passage to refute the theology is problematic and reveals your agenda.

 

1) By why so much suffering? It's not an either/or - it seems like this position states "either we have the amount of suffering that we currently have or we have no suffering at all" - but surely the soul-making arena can contain less suffering right? Otherwise, it seems like one is forced to conclude that this is the best of all possible worlds - something Voltaire had a bit of field day with in Candide. As for the parent analogy, parents who neglect their children have their children removed for their (the children's) well-being - if you don't intervene in their lives, they get serious injured. There are horrific stories of suffering children that seem to undermine this analogy.

2) Well the issue of Heaven is often conceived as a place in which no more suffering occurs, the question is if that world is better and can exist without free will (or always good choices) - why not this world? However, if one suggests that we can't speak meaningfully about the nature of Heaven, fair enough.

3) If Jesus helped someone via a miracle, that is by definition a supernatural intervention - healing, raising Lazarus from the dead, feeding the 5 thousand, etc. (I'll leave the transformation of water into wine off the list for obvious reasons). If God performed miracles then, why not now - heal the sick, etc?

4) Well there are many choices that lead to suffering and disaster based on moral ignorance, the Bible may say that we know right from wrong, but surely in your own experiences you have met people who thought they were doing the right thing only to realize they were mistaken, some people seem to have a greater understanding of ethics/morality than others (just as some people have a greater understanding of physics or sociology) - since actions are based on beliefs this seems definitional.

 

In the beginning....God.

 

So where did god come from?

 

Atheists claim man just sprang up from nothing, so if you buy that perhaps God did as well.
Do you believe the universe is infinite?
Do you believe time is infinite?

 

Read all of my post.

If you want a true discussion, then act maturely. Otherwise, I'm going to ignore your posts.

 

I commented on the meaning of faith, and logic. If you are going to use words then you should know what they mean.

I will repreat my comment to another person who is not serious about this topic - I have many discussions with people who question their and my beliefs, if you want a real discussion, then act like it. Otherwise, I will stop reading and responding to your posts. Its a waste of time to deal with people who have closed minds and whose objective is ridicule.

 

There is a school of thought that the universe is cyclical, and has always existed. You can google it if you like, and examine the evidence. As for man springing up from nothing, there is plenty of evidence that we evolved from more primitive species. You can google that too, if you don't understand it.

 

So you believe in Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies?


Exodus 3:18 (ERV) = “The elders will listen to you. And then you and the elders will go to the Pharaoh. You will tell him, ‘Yahweh is the God of the Hebrews. He came to us and told us to travel three days into the desert. There we must offer sacrifices to Yahweh our God.’

Psalm 83:18 (ERV) =Then they will know that your name is Yahweh— that you alone are the Lord. They will know that you are God Most High, ruler over all the earth!

Hosea 12:5 (ERV) = Yes, Yahweh is the God of the armies. His name is Yahweh.

Amos 9:6 (ERV) = "He built his upper rooms above the skies. He put his skies over the earth. He calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out as rain on the land. Yahweh is his name."

 

RE: Can an a Christian God exist?
※→ Diablo, et al,

I'm not even sure that YOU agree with this.

(COMMENT)

The "manifestation" of "energy" that you describe, is simply a matter of form. I think Relativity as accepted today () is a how we interpret it.

Energy is measured in joules; which is related to thermal energy (your fire example). (1 calorie ≈ 4.2 Joules) One BTU (the heat required to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit --- or ---the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree celsius) can be use to measure heat used.

Hitting a table is measured as force. It is nowhere near the amount of energy equivalent to fire; but they have an equivalency. Just 4 BTUs equals more than 3112.6 Foot Pounds or 4220 Joules.

You made a comparison so dissimilar in character as to be of no useful description.

(COMMENT)

Intelligence of a life form and Sun Light (cosmic radiation) have no relationship of which we are aware.

• Can life exist without sunlight? •

Althought there was no sunlight they found tube worms, clams and crabs and other life forms. These were living on the energy which is inside the Earth, the geothermal heat. yes life does exist without sulight.
• Life on Earth Can Survive Without the Sun’s Energy •
By Al Fin - Aug 03, 2010, 10:55 AM CDT​

(COMMENT)

First, I'm agnostic. But I do recognize the fact that there is a limit to human understanding. I cannot prove there is no such thing as a Werewolf or Vampire; but, that does not mean that my absence of evidence for that -- which is supernatural -- means the supernatural exists. There is no empirical evidence either for or against the that which is supernatural.

Just because I don't believe in the supernatural, does not mean that the supernatural does not exist.

(COMMENT)

All the basic deductive arguments (First Motion, Effective Cause, Quantum Possibilities, Intelligent Design) are both sound and valid:

• It is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion be false. (Validity)
• If all of its premises are actually true. (Soundness)​

Think about that for a moment.

Most Respectfully,
R