Can we at least agree on this?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    If you are dead you have no rights

    This has happened and usually it is left to the family because the outcome is usually bleak

    Honestly I feel like I am re enacting the bloody dead parrot scene

    It is not about rights in these cases. It is only and always what is medically possible tempered by ethical considerations. Not uncommonly the family decide against trying to keep the woman and foetus alive because of the high probability that the foetus will be brain damaged
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yup, fetal rights would reman the same, ZERO....fetuses have NO rights...
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you believe a human being relying on the body of someone else, even if this other person is brain-dead, is not entitled to rights,
    whereas if that human being was relying on a machine it would have rights.

    What makes you view the body of a brain dead woman (no one is there) as different from a machine in this case?
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not every pro-lifer would agree with that, but okay...

    The question is, what if the fetus was, say, just a few weeks before viability?

    So if it's right at 24 weeks, you wouldn't keep the woman alive a little longer to increase the fetus's odds of survival?
    Not to mention greatly reducing the chance of lifelong disability from being taken out of the womb so early.

    Oh, so family wishes have more rights than a fetus, you believe.

    What this proves is that abortion isn't just all about the rights of a person to their own body.

    Yeah, what if the woman was known to be an ardent pro-lifer, but her only surviving family member wants to pull the plug on the fetus?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought that the fetal rights were reduced only because of the woman's rights, not true?

    It's obvious you believe fetal rights are inferior to the rights of other humans, women's rights or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Why am I not surprised that you compare a woman to a machine...


    For the TEN THOUSANDTH time...a fetus has NO rights.


     
  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the woman is "only restin' "
    I would say the woman's rights are transferred to the family and their decisions should ethically motivated and tempered by what is medically possible.
    And, here we go again, why must there be ethical considerations at all in regards to the fetus? Because the fetus is morally entitled to be considered which is the definition of a right.
     
  8. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I see no problem in keeping the woman alive so the fetus reaches viability but the family has more rights. It would be a cost/benefit analysis. It would be assumed she wanted to go to term if she was that far along. A family member disregarding the woman's wishes would be acting unethically.
    Yes a fetus has increasing rights, from none at the fertilized egg to birth when it has full human rights.
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The non lawyers, the jack of all trades all crack me up. Do not follow any advice given by the non lawyers posting. Seek proof the person posting is actually a lawyer.
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    NO, it doesn't...a fetus has no rights until birth. Before that it has PROTECTIONS (after viability).
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you believe it should have protections after viability?
     
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings: """NO, it doesn't...a fetus has no rights until birth. Before that it has PROTECTIONS (after viability)."""




    Here's another question you'll ignore.

    WHERE did I say that I believe a fetus should have protections after viability ?

    Answer ( because you won't answer):

    I didn't say that...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  13. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    Yes a dog or parrot has more “rights” than a fetus.
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you don't want to explicitly say whether you believe in abortion after viability.
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about a dog inside a womb? Same rights as a regular dog, or less?
     
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    (Let's also keep in mind viability for dogs begins at 6-8 weeks gestation)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  17. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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  18. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    Last I checked dogs aren’t having abortions.
     
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  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok, so your pyramid of rights would look like this:

    human being outside of the womb
    dogs & parrots
    human being inside the womb post-viability
    human being inside the womb pre-viability
    dog inside the womb

    How about parrots in an egg not yet born?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last I checked, human owners were giving them abortions.
     
  21. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    Pretty much. Viability is irrelevent. Dogs in the womb, the fetus, and the parrot in the eggs are on the same level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you believe a dog in the womb is pretty much on the same level as a human being in the womb, in terms of rights.

    And you believe that a parrot in an egg is on the same level as a dog inside a female a dog?

    Could you explain to me why you believe a little chickling parrot inside an egg is worth less than a parrot that's already broken out of its shell?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  23. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    They’re all non conscious beings so yes they don’t have any “rights”.
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What if that's just a convenient justification for taking away their rights?


    I thought you stated you believed a dog or parrot did have rights:
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  25. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I rest my case. I told you all that some believe animals rights are superior to human rights.
     
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