Conversation with a Pastor

I don't think I mentioned the word good in relation to ministers.
What is good is specific to the individual. Your idea of good may be different to mine.

The most effective minister is one who is true to the faith he declares, and the One he serves, in both his spiritual and secular life. IMO

I've been lucky in my long life that I have met just 2 that I consider as the above during the time I knew them. Others have come close, some nowhere near.

I think it was Billy Graham that said ' A real Christian is one who can give his pet talking parrot to the town gossip.'

 

And so is the premise that philosophical materialism is based on. Some things so far are unknowable. There is no way anyone to know that god exists, and there is no way to know that it does not exist. Both atheism and theism is based upon an assumption, just like materialism or idealism. All assumptions. The dishonesty and the lack of integrity starts when anyone uses as assumption as fact...the atheists do it, the theists do it, the materialists do it.

The only honest thing anyone can say, is just, I DO NOT KNOW. But because of the human ego, we will not do that. That is the reality here. But you do not have to like it.

 

I didn't 'think' she was a pastor, she WAS a pastor. Trained and ordained. Your personal perspectives on women have no bearing on the matter.

And how am I to understand the basics if not even those who set themselves up as specialists on the topic, can't or won't answer the simplest of questions?

 

OK, so you've answered the question in the negative. What a surprise.

 

Thanks, Rob. I like your answer, and find I have fairly similar experiences. I find I get the best 'value' from older Catholic priests, and liberal female ministers (particularly those from gay friendly churches). I have a huge amount of trouble getting anything remotely useful from conservative, younger pastors attached to the big, modern protestant churches.

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I feel genuinely sorry for you. It must be hellish to live in the current century, with those views.

 

Im not disagreeing for the most part, but faith can be a very specific system, like most forms of Christianity, and a lack of faith does not mean an assumption is being made, it just makes one a skeptic.

 

Another time warper. While I hate to go off topic in my own thread, are you aware it's 2015? the notion of a 'house husband' belongs to the middle to latter end of last century. Men who are lucky enough and interested enough to stay home and raise their own kids are highly prized by modern young women.

Sorry to break it to ya, yguy, but men are no longer the clean shaven, lawn-mowing, hen-pecked saps of the 1950s, ordered by their controlling women to get that promotion and keep those trouser pleats straight.

 

Well, ya know, god works in mysterious ways.*




*The religious answer equivalent to ""Duh, I don't know , it doesn't make any sense but I believe it anyway""

 

So you see refusal to provide 'understanding', that which theists often claim atheists lack, as smart?

Let me remind you this women works for a proselytising evangelical church, which depends on constant high level recruitment. Why would someone who's entire job is recruitment, fail entirely to answer the simplest question, and worse, admit her own failure to consider the questions being put to her?

If a potential customer goes into a hardware store, and asks the clerk how a certain power tool works, can you imagine if the response was "I have no idea, because I've never thought about it", or he just waffled on about some entirely different product, vaguely? Would you expect that customer to have the confidence to buy? And no, it's not a matter of first making sure the customer is committed to buying before helping them out - the customer is always right, and should be taken seriously even if the chance of a deal is remote. You can never take the risk that they won't turn out to be the best customer you ever had.

 

It certainly came over very badly. Incredibly badly, in fact. You can't 'sell' that to someone not already invested, so what the hey?

 

Well, I'm sure you grew up with a male role model in your life. Most black people do not.

 

What did Jesus ever do that wasn't logical? He had a mission in which he fulfilled perfectly. Yes, Jesus suffered, but it wasn't outside of what he was planning to do.

Also, understanding a person's feelings? When it comes to female leaders, I understand it perfectly. I lived through it. Women are more emotional than men. That's a biological fact. When you place a huge burden on a woman, most women break down. That's just reality. I'm not saying men won't break down, but their decisions, more often than not, are statistically more logical than women. Their brains are wired differently. What else can I say?

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...--men-read-female-feelings.html#ixzz3czksPHPb


As far as your logic question: When dealing with leading positions, logic is needed over emotion. No one is saying emotion shouldn't have a place in a leading role. I'm saying logic needs to be the main bridge in making leadership decisions. Understand, that emotions also include "fear, anger and depression". People act and do things differently when they are afraid. They make rash decisions when they are angry or depressed. These are facts. When running a leadership role, those emotions cannot be carried on one's sleeve. Sure, there are women who are capable of this, but they are not in the majority.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying women can't be leaders. They can! However, women are currently leading the African American community, and it's not enough, because you cannot get things done leading by emotion. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

 

Precisely! Assuming atheism to be true is faith, which has nothing to do with logic. We are agreeing with each other.

 

Isn't that funny. I was chucked out of Sunday school (only attend a few weeks) as a seven year old because I also raised a question regarding Noah's Ark. I asked a young Lutheran deaconess if kangaroos originally came from Australia before the flood. I still remember that clearly.

 

Imagine if schools threw kids out for being curious and interested. It really defies all reason and decency that these church leaders would actually evict young kids.

Any organisation which demonises curiosity to the extent of throwing out CHILDREN, is necessarily as suspect as it gets. Incredibly dark and sinister stuff.

 

I think it was Texas (could have been Kansas) which removed critical thinking teaching from high school curricula.

 

Is this for real?

 

No I haven't. I've given you my explanation. Read the rest.

 

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/...ical-thinking-skills-in-texas-public-schools#

Here's my search, take your pick.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=texas+drops+critical+thinking&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=MASPJS

 

No! A lack of a belief is NOT a belief.

 

Bo,, you have to be careful how you word things around here. I never say I'm an Atheist, as an Atheist will most often say 'I don't believe in God'. Once you say believe or don't believe you automatically set up a belief system. To fundamental or radical Christians this can be deemed as a religion. I'm non religious and I just say God doesn't exist.

 

Can't I just say I don't believe in the belief in god?

 

Nah,, you'll only confuse them

 

When you tell somebody, "I don't believe you", then its your belief that they are wrong.

You're playing word games with yourself. There's no such thing as having "no belief" while simultaneously having an opinion about a belief.

Lizarddust is half right.

 

lol it's not a word game. Skepticism is NOT a belief system. SUSPENDING BELIEF is the opposite of belief dude. Saying I don't believe in Christian doctrine does not make me have a default belief system. Saying I don't share a belief does NOT make me hold the opposite of the belief in question to be true.

Skepticism: an inquiry, an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object, the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism that is characteristic of skeptics.

You are trying to say doubt is the same as belief. You are 100% wrong.