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Debunked, "Socialism has never worked"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jul 7, 2020.

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  1. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Man, it would be nice if the socialists could nail down exactly what socialism is. Every one you ask has a different answer.
     
    Fangbeer, Jul 7, 2020
    #51
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  2. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    At least break it down into categories. Posts Emma Goldman posters over bed, for example. Thinks Angela Davis is a right-leaning moderate. Believes polls.
     
    quiller, Jul 7, 2020
    #52
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Most of them believe any sort of state spending qualifies as socialism.
     
    TOG 6, Jul 7, 2020
    #53
  4. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    This is why we have terms like Democratic socialism and climate change. It allows them to move the goalposts until their hernias explode.
     
    Booman, Jul 7, 2020
    #54
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  5. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Capitalism: Easy to define. It's a system based on the ownership of personal property, and the mechanism(s) by which that property is voluntarily traded.

    Socialism: Collective ownership, and distribution, except in some cases, sometimes, in certain circumstances, unless we decide otherwise, in which case, forget what I just said.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    Fangbeer, Jul 7, 2020
    #55
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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    have to admit, it's a fact, history shows us that
     
    FreshAir, Jul 7, 2020
    #56
  7. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    Show me.
     
    Booman, Jul 7, 2020
    #57
  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The economic system that most closely resembles human nature, where people act in accordance with what they believe is in their best interest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    TOG 6, Jul 7, 2020
    #58
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you show me a society that has not crashed from corrupt leadership....
     
    FreshAir, Jul 7, 2020
    #59
  10. Booman

    Booman Banned

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    LOL

    First you specifically target Trump and then when challenged you decide to move the goalposts and generalize. Any road we have had plenty of corrupt leaders and yet we are still the most prosperous, free country on the planet. That may upset you but it's true.
     
    Booman, Jul 7, 2020
    #60
  11. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe the one you're posting from? The power's on. You've got food to eat. The internet's working. The shower's still hot. Your car has gas. The phone lines are up. Police, fire, ambulance services are moments away. No one is dropping bombs on your house.

    Life's not too bad I don't think.
     
    Fangbeer, Jul 7, 2020
    #61
  12. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not absolutely, but they control/regulate all three to some extent. Thinking otherwise denies objective reality. Not that you'd be the first conservative to do so.
     
    Lee Atwater, Jul 7, 2020
    #62
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  13. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    For the lost part your post is very well stated. I see AOC as a wild eyed teenager who spouts out simplistic phrases. Bernie is just an old leftist who Communists would call a useful idiot.
     
    PARTIZAN1, Jul 7, 2020
    #63
  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Socialism is by definition collective ownership of the means of production. Government hiring privately owned contractors is therefore not socialism.
     
    bringiton, Jul 7, 2020
    #64
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  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Well stated.
     
    PARTIZAN1, Jul 7, 2020
    #65
  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    True.
     
    PARTIZAN1, Jul 7, 2020
    #66
  17. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    That is because there are various degree of socialism just as there are various degrees of capitalism. Capitalist or people who claim to know and adhere to capitalism can no sooner define capitalism than the socialists younare challenging.

    Ask someone who claims that they are real strong capitalists to define capitalism and they will say stuff like......"it means freedom." ....." it means you have the right to choose"...... one gebonee once said that capitalism means you have the right to worship God and to say Merry Christmas.

    Socialist as in National Socialism. Many people argue that since Nazis are socialists because it is in their name. WRONG, When I throw the name German Democratic Republic and tell them to explain why the GDR is supposedly Democratic and a republic at them they go silent. Why? Because the German Democratic Republic was not Democratic nor a Republic despite it's name.
     
    PARTIZAN1, Jul 7, 2020
    #67
  18. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Correct - they are socialists because better than half of their platform contains socialist ideals and tenets.
     
    TOG 6, Jul 7, 2020
    #68
  19. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just did define capitalism in a way that all capitalists would agree. Easy breezy. Here it is again:

    It's a system based on the ownership of personal property, and the mechanism(s) by which that property is voluntarily traded.

    The key tenets are private property, and voluntary trade of that property.

    What are the key tenets of socialism that all socialists would agree on? Collective ownership? No? Collective production? No? Collective distribution? No?
     
    Fangbeer, Jul 7, 2020
    #69
  20. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Everything the government builds is financed by capitalism. Trying to pass that off as socialism is intellectually dishonest.
     
    doombug, Jul 7, 2020
    #70
  21. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    We ( the US) do use elements of "socialist" programs but that does not make us socialist. Social Security, Unemployment Compensation, and other safety net programs such as welfare programs are based on "socialist" philosophy but using them does not make us socialists. Except in the minds of extremist right wingers.
     
    PARTIZAN1, Jul 7, 2020
    #71
  22. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the NAZI not socialist mechanism is the same one that caused all the collectivist racists in the 1860 Democrat party to join the party of individual liberty, and all the people formerly in the party of individual liberty to switch to the party of collectivism. Crazy how that kind of thing is possible when cognitive dissonance requires it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    Fangbeer, Jul 7, 2020
    #72
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nope, I did not, I said all failed societies have a corrupt leader like Trump behind them
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    FreshAir, Jul 7, 2020
    #73
  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    This is reinforced by the apparently ingrained idea that there are only two parties.
     
    TOG 6, Jul 7, 2020
    #74
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    all current societies can say that... we will fail too, especially with the new Debt Trump has piled on

    are failure with the result of people like Bush Jr and Trump
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
    FreshAir, Jul 7, 2020
    #75
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