Democrats Introduce Sweeping Plan To ‘End The Criminalization Of Immigration’

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Space_Time, Dec 10, 2019.

  1. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Should we just get rid of all immigration laws and let everyone in? Should it matter to people who followed the procedure to immigrate? If things are as bad here as the Left says should immigrants even come here?

     
  2. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No borders = one billion people in the U.S. by 2100.

    Welcome to India.
     
  3. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It also means no U.S. by 2100.
     
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  4. Plasticman

    Plasticman Member

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    It appears these Representatives feel it should not be a crime to cross the border into the US without authorization. Does anyone here agree with them?
     
  5. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Here's more:

     
  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    There should be a ban on the democrat party. Democrats supported slavery. Why are they allowed to still influence government?
     
  7. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned at Members Request

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    Weirdly enough opening the border up could actually reduce immigration rates.
     
  8. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to risk it. The US lacks the logistical support necessary to import the citizens of the world en masse. China/Russia can't do it, as Texas Republican illustrated. This is the essential conflicting point, we see how this policy has affected other nations and Democrats had made the steps that suggested they'd go here.(Just like O'Rouke let the cat out of the bag on guns.)
     
  9. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    No, it would not.
     
  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned at Members Request

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    "
    But borders aren’t just a missed opportunity for those stuck on the wrong side on them. If the walls come down, almost everyone benefits because immigrants sell the new wealth they create—and the inhabitants of their new country are their top customers. As long as Haitians remain in Haiti, they produce next to nothing—and therefore do next to nothing to enrich the rest of the world. When they move, their productivity skyrockets—and so does their contribution to their new customers. When you see a Haitian restaurant in Miami, you shouldn’t picture the relocation of a restaurant from Port-au-Prince; you should picture the creation of a restaurant that otherwise would never have existed—not even in Haiti itself.

    The central function of existing immigration laws is to prevent this wealth creation from happening—to trap human talent in low-productivity countries.
    Out of all the destructive economic policies known to man, nothing on Earth is worse.
    "
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/01/immigration-wall-open-borders-trillion-dollar-idea/

    It's not just people that move through borders, its goods, services and ideas. Increase the flow of these, this means the costs of doing businesses locally goes down. Why go to some foreign country where you may not speak the language, deal with racism, classism, etc. when you and your kids are going to have a good life where you are now?
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned at Members Request

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    Do you know what the right to have rights refers to?
     
  12. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Huh?
     
  13. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Will put this one into the "didn't even make it TO committee" bin.
     
  14. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned at Members Request

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    The right to have rights is an idea by Hannah Arendt who wanted to explain why the Holocaust happened. Basically she said that prior to WW2 international systems failed to take care of refugees because it was a mad dash to the bottom. Nobody wanted to take care of the refugees born out of WWI because if they did, other countries would just dump those refugees onto them. It's more complicated than just that, but that's the basic idea. The reason the refugees were powerless to stop this is because they lacked a right to have rights. You just made that argument, or at least Texas Republican did. We don't lack the logistical support to do it, we just don't want to deal with a bunch of free rides.

    The problem with this is it devalues citizenship to the point where who is allowed to participate isn't based on some criteria they meet. It's based on their usefulness in a political system. For this reason, nations can't really exist.
     
  15. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    No, we lack the resources. As he said: Look at India, look at China and look at Russia. Even at our current capacity of 325(or 327) million Americans, a substantial amount(give or take 90 million) are on assistance and/or unemployed. Now imagine adding millions and millions upon such a system.

    No, Mexico, etc can take care of their own. And I agree with that sentiment leading up to WWII. It wasn't the responsibility of those nations to prevent the Holocaust. Yes, we hate mass murder but why should we then be obligated to take on any said persons to prevent said massacres?

    Essentially, Ms. Hannah has argued that the right of these refugees(and immigrants) supplants the right of the countries involved.
     
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  16. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned at Members Request

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    It's not Ms.Hannah, it's Arendt. Show respect to the theorists.

    No, we don't lack resources. How do we know this? Because immigrants are actually really important to jump starting economies. Immigrants are great at opening businesses, and are responsible for lots of businesses being created. Think restaurants. That's not even considering the added workforce. So in terms of resources, meh. Short term might be an issue, but long term it's better. Sprawling economies need labor.

    Now Arendt doesn't do that. She doesn't say universal rights do that. She actually is arguing against universal rights because they're failures. Rather what she is saying that before a refugee is allowed into a country, they have to be considered part of the demos already to some extent. They need to have the right to have other rights, and while this is universal, it is universal because everyone needs to be acknowledged as part of the demos before they gain the liberties of the demos. Basically the kids in the clubhouse have to let you in, before you can go into the club house.

    Does that make sense?
     
  17. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    And we kids in the clubhouse are saying no, because this economic theory is absurd on its face. I'm sorry, random immigrant in Haiti will not bring a random new business with him to America. This is because he lacks the capital already to begin with. Why else, is he coming to America? If he were rich and prosperous in Haiti, he wouldn't have to come here. But alas, he is here.

    Here's the truth: For every few successful immigrants, we can point to the countless of others who failed to sign up, or failed to report, or many of whom deficient in English despite YEARS in the country.

    This fable that if we open our masses to EVERYONE, that we'll have some big boom isn't validated by any actual physical evidence.
     
  18. Aquarius

    Aquarius Active Member

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    I really do like open borders. Hate this country club mentality.
     
  19. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Globalist propaganda.
     
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  20. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    "Short term might be an issue"? It WOULD be an issue. No "might" about it.

    Look, we already have a current shortage of doctors in the US. Teachers also. Police also. Just those three things alone are MAJOR resources that is NEEDED if we don't want to end up a 3rd world nation also. So what happens if there is an influx of millions? What happens when those people from 3rd world countries that has never had vaccinations comes here with no one patrolling the border? What happens to schools? Crime rate? I know I know, immigrants create less crime than native born. That doesn't mean that crime isn't increased. That is a talking point that ignores that.

    We already have over a million people immigrate here to the US both legally and illegally that numbers over 1 million people per year. What do you think is going to happen when word gets out that we no longer have any impediments to entering this country? Think it will be the same? Or do you think that the numbers would explode? You don't need a crystal ball to realize that the numbers would explode.

    Now, while it has been shown that immigration is good for the US...that is under an immigration system that restricts immigration. Do you think that such would hold true with unfettered immigration policies? Don't you think that its possible that an unfettered immigration policy would make things FAR harder on our system? So hard that it might not be able to recover?

    There's an old saying: "Too much of anything can be bad for you". That is what's called a "truism". Something that is true no matter what. Too much food is bad for the body. Too much water can kill you. Even too much oxygen can also kill you.

    The reason for immigration laws has nothing to do with "preventing wealth creation" as you stated in an earlier post. It has to do with making sure that our current resources are not so overtaxed that it harms us in the short run AND the long run..
     
  21. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    The only real way that a globalist society would truly work would be if you ended world hunger and stopped wars. How long do you think its going to be before that happens?
     
  22. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    If the USA could not sustain anymore in bringing in Immigrants because of economic and safety reasons then it must stop bringing in immigrants, but if there is a necessity then we should bring in immigrants but of course deliberately and strictly. We should also respect human rights and dignity upon implementing the process.
     
  23. Aquarius

    Aquarius Active Member

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    Not really, I am watching Tales by the Light on Netflix and it is awful how people in third world countries live.
    Honestly to want to horde our wealth like dragons is absurd. No one is talking about Sharing your stuff even just giving others a shot to make it big.
     
  24. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is awful. However no one is just given a shot to make it big time. You have to work for it. And work for it HARD.
     
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  25. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    That along with their love of taxation means that it's a doomed political party. They aren't capable of thinking rationally.
     
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