Does atheism poise a safety risk to Christians?

The "vacuous closed mind" is the one that IGNORES the complete ABSENCE of any evidence whatsoever for the stone age SUPERSTITION that there must be a "creator".

Produce the EVIDENCE and it will be considered but in the absence of evidence only the IRRATIONAL will IGNORE the scientific knowledge we already have and fallaciously equate that to debunked superstitions.

 

The theist allegation that atheists live lives without meaning is nothing short of arrogance based upon a false sense of superiority derived from believing that they are the "chosen" of their imaginary "creator".

All of the atheists that I know have actually put way more thought into what their lives are all about than the average theist who just accepts what they told without question.

 

I, for one, am all in favor of every scientific inquiry and research we can make. I wish, actually, that we would spend a hell of a lot more on purely scientific R&D than we do on bottomless 'black-holes' of expenditure such as we see in so many hyperliberal 'social programs'. IMHO, 'the night sky' is FULL of evidence of at least a 'creative intelligence'.

You have stated that your biggest complaint about Christianity is that all Christians evangelize and proselytize. PLEASE be advised that I am not (NOT) trying to convert you to my views on religion, which, although Christian, are quite different from those held by probably 99% of other Christians. I don't care what you or any other atheist 'believes'. Live your life, have 'splendid' days, die, and go into a nihilist's envisioned oblivion and nothingness for all I care. In my 'belief system' people like you are not my 'mission'....

From the standpoint of this thread's topic, the best thing about people like you is that you are surely not a threat to Christians, or probably anyone else. And you have as much right to your view of 'the night sky' as I do. So, have a splendid day... who knows... it may be your last....

 

I'm trying to remember when I have ever posted the word, "divine" anywhere in this thread. Please refresh my obviously deficient memory.... Again, be under no illusion -- I am not (NOT) trying to persuade you of anything. You are not a threat...(the thread topic), and that's all that interests me about you....

 

The same atheists are told how they think by Christians ...ya know like how we hate Christians etc. Knock off the hypocrisy

 

They are taught that so they can feel validated in their beliefs

 

is that Like your view of not criticizing Christian mass mirdering of jews as hate mongering? Just using your same words. That tells the extent of your hatred of Jews by your response.. again just using your words in a different form..to show how ridiculous your attack is

 

You are rather clear in your messages that you do. That is SO known on this forum another member specifically invited you in to go on the attack.

 

Dozens and dozens of times on this forum, I have "attacked" and "criticized" anyone posting ANY anti-Semitic messages of any kind.

Have you EVER posted even ONE message "criticizing" anyone who post anti-Christian messages? We both know the answer is no.

 

The lack of obligations work both ways in my opinion.

 

I have said one prayer in my life and it was generic and somehow just came out spontaneously from the greatest rage and anger I ever felt in my life – before or since – raging it out loud as I could: “Damn you old bastard! I never asked you for nothing and you never did jacksh.t for me! Do it to me, not her!”

For over quarter hour I had desperately and gently done CPR chest compressions and mouth to mouth/nose to no pulse - and it had failed.

I completely lost it and out that blind pure fury and rage roared those words out. To curse the whole cosmos and all of it. More bad stuff had happened to me in my life to that point than any of you would even believe, not once had I thought of religion or God in any of it. That was just how things were. But this?! Outrageous! The fury came over me like a tidal wave. Out that “prayer” came from it.

I then held up that lifeless tiny newborn on a spontaneous frank breach birth (upside down and backwards) I had to suddenly figure out – taking far too long to her suffrocating - begging “sing to me girl!” Her body violently startled. Seconds later she was in her mother’s arms. But she didn’t make a sound. I figured maybe brain damage for so long without oxygen, but at least her mother got to hold her. How wrong I was.

That girl’s got it all. So brilliant she was being published in scientific journals while still in high school. Academic awards one after another. Any contest of any kind – academic, professional, athletic - she wins it. So tough she goes mountain climbing around the world. Such interpersonal skills she’s never been turned down for any job or project one after another – even if totally unqualified for the required credentials. So cute half the girls is school would copy her hair style and dress hoping to look like her. Not so much as a birth mark.

Oh, there was one other person praying outloud. “Dear heavenly father, please save my baby!” over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over…

The only other voice? From the phone laying on the phone. A nurse shouting "PICK UP THE PHONE! PICK UP THE PHONE!" She had told me "it" can't be saved, not a frank breach. To firmly and slowly twist out the body to free the head to save the mother. I knew this would break "her" neck. "It" was the wrong word. That nurse could not help me. So I just dropped the phone on the floor. This was up to me.

No one else there. All up to me. Never felt more alone in my life. Of all surprise desperate moments thrown at me in life previously, nothing like this. But those sudden surprises were always about me, not someone else. When everything is up to you about someone else, its different. To literally have another life in your hands.

I’m not religious. But I’m no atheist either. Of the finest people I have known in my life, nearly all are practicing Christians. Good, gentle people.

When people attack Christians and Christianity, I get angry. Very. Now you know why.

I don’t really know whether It was a miracle or not. But I damn sure know it wasn’t atheism that did anything. If the cosmos had intervened, it wasn't an atheist cosmos.

The paramedics had gone to the wrong address first. Right street address. Wrong town. It wasn’t non-secular humanism that had saved the day – that I do know. Whether it was some metaphysical power? I don’t know either way. I don't know what I don't know. That doesn't mean what other people claim they do know is false.

NO atheist can legitimately claim to KNOW there is no God. A person can claim they know there is one. Whether they are right or not, whether they personally really know this? I can't know if the person does or doesn't really. Being unable to prove something metaphysical they know to me doesn't prove it's untrue. So I'm not religious, but definitely no atheist either.

So to the question of is there a God(s) or other metaphysical power? My truthful answer is "I don't know. I do know I've hoped so one time and it turned out perfectly." And I know the only specific religion at all involved? Christian.

 

The Apostles practiced communism. So do monks in a monastery. Communism is in no way an atheist invention.

 

How is the person claiming to know that there is a God any more "legitimate" than the person claiming to know that there isn't one? Neither person knows, so why rank one above the other?

 

And if you took the time to actually meet atheists in person and talk to them, you'd find just as many good, gentle people. Both sides have their good people and their bad people.

I've seen Christianity ruin almost every ounce of my grandmother's happiness. She's gone from a happy, cheerful person to an angry, hateful woman who lives the last of her years in constant fear that her cruel God will consign her friends and family into eternal torment. I've seen countless parents (including my own) inflict child abuse on their kids by teaching them the same disgusting doctrine. This is part of why I argue that there can be no heaven for me if the Christian God is real -- I can't be eternally happy with the knowledge that so many good people are being tortured just because they didn't believe the right dogma. I've seen my brother-in-law and cousin both disowned and cut off from their family for marrying someone of the "wrong" faith. My aunt became homeless as a teenager because her mother couldn't accept that she was a lesbian and valued her religion more than her family. I've personally been threatened with violence for offending religious sensibilities. I've seen otherwise good people defend infanticide and slavery because of their Christian beliefs.

There are a lot of good Christians, most of them in fact, but there is a lot of truth to Steve Weinberg's old quote, "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." And anyone familiar with human history knows that, throughout most of Christianity's history, it has been used to convince otherwise good people to do bad things: killing nonbelievers, burning women for witchcraft, killing homosexuals, brutalizing Jews, etc. etc.

That isn't a reflection on all Christians. Probably my favorite ethicist is a Christian. Most of my family is Christian. But I think it does reflect on Christianity. No belief system can be called "good" if it tries to justify the eternal torture of all of those who fail to accept it. No belief system can be called "good" if it relies heavily on the belief that it is moral to punish one person for the actions of another.

Most Christians are perfectly nice people, but I can't say the same for their God, and belief in that God has lead to a lot of misery throughout human history.

 

No human can really grasp the totality of the universe. Another word for religion is metaphysics - that which is belong the physical world that can be perceived by human senses or technological means. God or gods means beings or life forms within metaphysical reality.

It is curious how so many people believe their MUST be life in the vastness of the cosmos, but can not possibly be any metaphysical reality or life. If any such metaphysical beings are capable of interacting with physical reality generally and humans specifically, directly or indirectly, trying to positively interact with them could be highly beneficial. Failing to do so - or being adversarial to it/them could be dangerous or harmful - and if so even from that sense nihilistic people could poise a great threat - or great lose of benefit.

However, on this thread, the question is whether the current psychological effects of either the ideology of atheism OR how that ideology currently affects people is a danger to Christians? The answer clearly seems yes, because their have been murders of Christians because of it. That doesn't mean religious beliefs do not poise danger as well.

Curiously, all all the "Christian" caused deaths, actually it is due to disagreemen among people over differences, not agreement. If all shared the same metaphysical belief, that metaphysical belief would poise no conflict danger to anyone and instead would be a universal cohesion.

I've pointed out before that THE great social advancement of humans - leading to complex societies leading then to vast scientific discovery - to shift from small nomadic hunter-gatherers to complex city builders of complex societies - and the leisure time to explore more than just finding food - was religion. Even THE most ancient but permanent stone cities found all have a religious temple at the center of the city. It was religion that unified people to common morality, goals and rules in large numbers leading to complex societies and cities - something secular human leadership had been unable to do.

 

Pose. The word is pose. "Pose a danger"

 

The Apostles were under great persecution. They divided and shared everything to insure survival. Anyway, they did it voluntarily. It was not in the least a mandate. Communism is a government mandate most often at the point of a gun....that's where liberals choose to forget!

 

Actually, no. There were plenty of voluntary/anarchist communists. You are thinking of Marxist Communism. But even the end goal of Marxist Communism was the end of the state. I still prefer capitalism and think it produces much better results, even for the most disadvantaged, but it isn't true that all forms of communism involve "a government mandate" at all.

 

And the monastic types still do it voluntarily today, even without the persecution. Of course there is a difference between voluntary and obligatory communism, but the point still stands: communism was not an invention of atheists. In fact, the communists no doubt drew great inspiration from the precedent set by Christianity. And not just common Christianity, but the Christianity practiced by the Apostles themselves. If you're selling Communism, you've got some pretty fantastic posterboys in the form of St Peter and the gang. "I mean, hey, if it was good enough for them... You don't think you're better than St Peter, do you?"

 

Simple logic.

You are named "Christian" and stop at a restaurant while traveling. At the register, you realize you forgot your wallet and can't pay. Someone hears this and say's he'll pay it. He tells you that his name is "Jesus."

On the forum you tell the story of someone calling himself "Jesus" paid a check because you forgot your wallet.

1. Do you know someone calling himself Jesus paid a restaurant check for you? Yes you do and as absolutely fact.

2. Do I know for a certain fact that someone calling himself Jesus paid a check for you? No, I really don't. I wasn't there. I may believe you, but I don't know it is true as a certain fact.

3. There is no basis for me to say, "I know as an absolutely certain fact that you are not telling the truth and no one calling himself Jesus paid a check for you."

For the same logic, I can truthfully say "I don't know if there is a God." However, I cannot truthfully say "I know for a fact there is no God." No person is omniscient and that it what it would require to make that claim.

 

Yes, that is correct. The punctuation in your message correcting my spelling is incorrect.

 

I could take your same criticisms in terms of history or ideology and apply it to atheists, couldn't I? Or agnostics. Or any religion and many other ideologies.

A true flaw in your message about Christianity is assuming there is a universal Christian belief that all Christians subscribe to. That is very false. Nor does picking apart the Bible work unless you agree that my picking apart a writing by an atheist then attaches to all of atheism. Probably tens of millions - if not more - if asked if the old and new testament are the literal words of God will answer "no." That does not mean they view it as irrelevant or even not as the most important book of their life.

If you actually get to the topic of Jesus - and many Christians ONLY care what he is quoted as saying - then the attacks then to be not about what he said relevant to the time, but what he didn't say and claim he should have. So when discussing what Christians believe and Christianity, it is necessary for you to discuss the 87,452 different beliefs of Christians and versions of Christianity. If you want to extend that back to the origins of Christian, ie Jesus, and all practices, beliefs and views across that entire time frame, make that 21,540,043 different beliefs and versions.

Just counting the different denominations AND independent churches AND independent TV preachers AND independent radio preachers AND independent street preachers takes us into the thousands of different religions call Christian and even a greater number of people with differing practices and beliefs.

 

The topic I was trying to raise was not whether there is a God or if Christianity or atheism or any other belief is accurate or better as an ideology.

The question I POSE is whether atheism as psychology currently in the USA poses a danger to Christians? Political danger? Economic danger? Social danger? Safety danger?

 

So since the same is true for atheists, I can only assume the OP is no longer relevant. You can't have it both ways.

 

If we can't meaningfully talk about Christian belief, we can't meaningfully talk about atheism.