Donald Trump's administration is after Julian Assange and it serves as a warning to us all

Discussion in 'United States' started by Bowerbird, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    As per rules of the forum

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...r-assange-and-it-serves-as-a-warning/11350854

    This is not about Assange per se, even though he is an Aussie I also consider him to be a world class TWONK
    Leaving aside the fact that once again Trump has thrown someone who assisted him under the bus and in this case backed the bus up for another go

    This is about free speech versus espionage. Apparently the only reason that Assange is being persecuted is that “he is not a journalist”

    So does the government get to decide who is and who is not a journalist?
     
  2. Political Master

    Political Master Newly Registered

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    Okay I'm confused….How is President Trump got it out for Julian Assange?
     
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  3. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have mixed feelings about Assange, there were times when I agreed with what he was doing and there were times when I did not, I'm sure the left has a similar opinion.

    As for him being a journalist, I'm not too sure about that. From what I've seen, be it right or wrong, he provides a database for the world to look at and every now and then he would do an interview. Does that make him a journalist or a warehouse of information?
     
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  4. Political Master

    Political Master Newly Registered

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    Or a political commentator who broke the law under the guise of journalism.
     
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    What's the precise difference between expose journalism and espionage?

    Reporters seek to expose corruption and wrongdoing all the time, that's one of the most important functions of the media in a democracy, and they will often seek insiders for the story.

    How is telling the public that the government is doing something controversial not a freedom of the press issue?

    I would draw the line at if a reporter pays or coerces a government employee for confidential information.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    And if they illegally steal info to profit by it they go to jail

    We have this "All The President's Men" mythos, but that doesn't really apply here. It's true that the government cannot legally keep non-military secrets to benefit themselves, that's why we have the Freedom of Information Act, but what Trump did to the DNC was like Pepsi stealing Coke's formula, then acting like Coke is UnAmerican when they object. You're starting off from the assumption that the Republicans embody truth and justice because they won the election and therefore whatever cheating they did to win was justified. That isn't how American politics is supposed to function and it's blatantly illogical as well.
     
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  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Assange is a freelance information thief and character assassin
     
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  8. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Of course.

    Great Description. Spot on.
     
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  9. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    Based on what OP posted it sounded like Obama admin knee they could make their case, but didnt want to upset their media ally. Am I reading that wrong?


    Journalist or not, if Assange, or the NY Tabloid, pressured or paid, cash or equivalent, an informant to leak classified material, they are committing espionage. That is an indisputable fact. We know from previous reporting that Assange brokered deals for classified info so this seems pretty straight forward.
     
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  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    According to Obama himself you are indeed, Obama has said repeatedly that he did not want to make the case so as to not seem that he was trying to influence the election.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  11. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    No. He said that in relation to Russian facebook posts, not espionage. OPs quote said they didnt make the case because it would also envelop the NY tabloid.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    OIC, but couldn't he be making the same argument, that is, that he didn't want to influence something unduly?
     
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  13. therooster

    therooster Well-Known Member

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    Rule # 1 . Dont believe one word that lying sack has to say, he has a bad reputation as a liar.
     
  14. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    That depends on perspective. If you believe Russian facebook posts are the most important crisis facing our county today then yes, I think it is worth bringing the issue to light and trying the case.


    If you are like me and believe Russian trolling is only affecting the dumbest of us, then still yes. It's worth bringing to light and trying the case.
     
  15. therooster

    therooster Well-Known Member

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    Then why did he direct the fbi, cia, doj to spy on the trump administration?
     
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  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    I think thats precisely the issue. Do journalists have different speech rights than everyone else? If so, who's a journalist and who isn't?
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Trump is wrong to hang Assange out to dry.
     
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  18. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    But, if the emails came from Clinton's personal server which was not suppose to have classified emails on it, can you still consider it espionage?
     
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  19. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    They didn't. That was a pretty poor attempt at deflection.
     
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  20. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    It's not a deflection, it was a question. Are you saying the wikileaks emails did not come from her server? Where else would they get classified emails from then? If they came from the DNC or Wieners laptop, then it's not espionage.
     
  21. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    The FBI investigated. There is no evidence that her server was hacked.

    I haven't reviewed the Wikileaks emails but I have not ever seen any suggestion that any of them came from her server.

    Whether what Assange and Wikileaks did was "espionage" might be irrelevant. If he conspired with someone to commit a crime - even if it is hacking the DNC's computers - that is itself a crime. Even if it is not the specific crime of espionage.
     
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  22. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's what Wikileaks apparently claimed but I wouldn’t take their word on the matter. Their standard defence against pretty much anything is to claim they’re journalists but even if that were the case, I don’t see how it would be an actual defence here. Note that he isn’t being charged for reporting on alleged criminal acts, he is being charged for publishing vast swathes of classified information unrelated to that, and the potential consequences of that act. The only thing it could offer is continued legal protection from being required to name their sources.

    That is a valid wider question in the modern age. There are a number of legal rights and restrictions specific to journalists but where that definition lies is open to question and challenge.
     
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  23. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Haven’t you ever noticed taht this self appointed guardian of “free speech” and warrior against surveillance, never attacks police states or dicatators.

    Indeed, all of his attacks are focused on the United States and Western Europe.

    There is little doubt that the Russians used him as a “useful idiot” at this point.

    Ironically, his remaining defenders are all from the far right wing, the people who cheered loudest for the sort of secrecy laws and practices that Assange is supposed to be fighting.
     
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  24. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member Donor

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    What has Clinton’s server have to do with it?

    The issue at hand is the fact that the Russians hacked the DNC servers, not Clinton’s, and then handed them to Assange, who played the “useful idiot”, even to the point of installing encrypted Russian supplied software on his machines.
     
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  25. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:
    Says the trump worshipper.
    G'wan tell us another one.
     
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