Farage REVEALS brilliant plan to secure Brexit in 48 HOURS

Well, yes and no. There will be some (many ? most ?) people who won't see it as a betrayal and who will continue to buy BMWs and Minis because they want the cars.

Even so, it may be a price worth paying in order to avoid collapsing supply chains and swingeing tariffs in other markets

They're not getting complacent, which is why they're protecting the other major Mini markets of the EU, US, China and Japan from the effects of a no-deal Brexit. Without trade deals, tariffs would be applied and prices would rise. From BMW's perspective, it may make sense to risk a proportion of the 9% of business they do in the UK to protect the 91% they do in the rest of the world.

Yes, an awful lot of false propaganda, disseminated by the same people who brought us the Leave campaign,

A no-deal Brexit will also likely have significant consequences for the Conservatives, not least because the people who will be hardest hit by a no-deal Brexit - those who haven't done well in the last 10 or 20 years as the UK economy has changed - were those the Conservatives were courting with their moves into UKIP territory.

 

I see that the Leave conspiracy machine is in full swing....

The idea that the Remain campaign would waste any time or effort posting to a forum like this where there are maybe 10 or 20 active participants from the UK is, IMO, ridiculous.

 

Reading all the signs, especially during the last 24 hours, I'm now fully convinced it won't be a no deal withdrawal so I see no point in continuing this discussion with you. Nothing personal of course. I just hope the consequences won't be as dire as I think.

 

Ever heard the aphorism 'From little acorns great oaks do grow'? Think about it.

 

I have and I still think that an anonymous poster interacting with 10 or 20 people who are themselves not "influencers" and are probably shut-ins is a poor way of spreading a message.

Much better to have an ex-chancellor speak in the press, or a bunch of luvvies hit Twitter or Instagram.

 

But it isn't 'an anonymous poster' is it, if they're operating on other social mediums too. Anyway I'm thoroughly depressed, and have no wish to discuss it any more.

 

Aha - the Sir-Robin gambit

I'm convinced that a no-deal Brexit is inevitable. I think that Theresa May's deal is dead in the water - I think you agree.

The EU show no intention of renegotiating that deal by March 29th so we either delay/cancel Brexit or exit on the 29th with no deal.

For sure there are plenty of noises coming out of Westminster regarding postponing Brexit but without legislation it simply cannot happen and no group can get a majority for any course of action. Theresa May has clearly stated that there are only two alternatives, her deal and no deal. I reckon she'd be equally happy with either which means that no-deal it is,

 

Yes the woman is a dead duck, and richly deserves to be for being a traitor in PM's clothing, but there are still many powerful remainers, and together with the charlatans of the EU they'll do it, of that I'm certain.

 

I don't think you need to be depressed, I think a no deal Brexit (which, unless I have completely misunderstood you, is something you'd be content with) is a nailed on certainty - purely because it is the default position. There is absolutely no course of action which can get the support of the majority of MPs so we'll end up with the default.

 

You know as well as I do that the powerful and influential and the wealthy can do anything they want to do?

 

There may be many powerful Remainers, but the policy of the Labour Party is also Brexit. Any attempt to stop Brexit will be opposed by the vast majority of Conservative MPs, the majority of Labour Party MPs and the DUP. Anything brought to the table by Labour will be voted down by the Conservatives and DUP. Anything from the "minor" parties will be laughed out.

 

There are just as many powerful and influential people pushing for Brexit - don't worry, you'll get a no-deal Brexit. If this wasn't the default position then I'd agree with you that a no-deal would be incredibly unlikely.

 

Labour want to stay in even more than the Tories, but they want to do it using the customs union subterfuge which amounts to staying in the EU however they dress it up. You have no idea what loathing I have for remainers in all their guises, no idea! I see them as traitors albeit unwitting ones. Probably witting too.

 

Here's the most recent project fear frightener . . .

"No-deal Brexit 'incredibly damaging' for security, says UK counter-terror head"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ecurity-says-uk-counter-terror-head-neil-basu

And I wonder what May and Sturgeon are up to?

 

So you think you know more about the security than the UK head of Counter Terror. Can you give us a source for your knowledge?!

 

Nope, Labour Party policy is Brexit.

Now you may believe that being in a customs union post-Brexit isn't Brexit but if you consider Labour's conditions for being in said customs union, it makes it impossible in any case so a Labour Brexit would also be a hard, no-deal Brexit (simply because any deal they want is impossible).

You cannot be both witting and unwitting at the same time. I think you're blinded by gammon.

 

It isn't, the mealy-mouthed play-to-the-gallery populist loser Corbyn is merely paying lip-service to the referendum result. They want to stay in.

 

Or in other words you have no knowledge and just label anything you disagree with as Project Fear! The only childishness are your insults and deflection when pressed for facts. Try to keep your emotions under control!

 

I disagree.

Apart from a brief period during the referendum campaign during which he gave half-hearted support for the Remain campaign because it was Labour Party policy, Jeremy Corbyn has wanted to be out of the EU for decades. He sees the corporatist EU as standing between the British people and the workers' utopia that would inevitably result if the Corbynist Labour Party were given a free hand.

Without pesky EU regulations, a future Labour government could put the means of production back in the hands of workers, force business owners to sell their businesses to the workers and allow the government to subsidise businesses - in other words to march boldly back to the 1970s (which is at least better than the Tories who seem determined to take us back to the '50s - the 1950s in the case of Theresa May, the 1850s in the case of Boris Johnson and the 1750s in the case of Jacob Rees-Mogg).

 

But neither is it 'out', is it? Remember, this was a referendum for staying in or leaving, and not a half-way house which is what both parties are aiming for, whereas a customs union (oh dear god, do I have to use the effing word) deal means we won't have regained our sovereignty and our legislature - plus we'll still be contributing?

You can - someone may have an agenda so that makes them witting . . .

witting
/ˈwɪtɪŋ/
adjective

1. done in full awareness or consciousness; deliberate.
   "the witting and unwitting complicity of the institutions"
   • (of a person) conscious or aware of the full facts of a situation.
2. 
   
   • r they may be making their decision out of ignorance of the facts, so the antonym of witting is unwitting? Stop splitting hairs. Oh, and don't use 'both' when there's no need to!!
     
     
   • And I don't think gammon makes anyone blind.

 

The referendum was completely unspecific about what "Leave" meant - you may have interpreted it a particular way, but anything that has the UK leaving the EU would fall within the very wide range of Leave alternatives. That's why it's impossible to get a majority in favour of any course of action.

 

I've told you I'm not going to get into your semantics and biased word play. There are plenty of other sources which assert that it was a 'yes' or 'no' - Leave or Remain, that's how I remember the question.

 

That was exactly the question, but in terms of Leave, this includes (and at various times we were promised by prominent Leave campaigners):

• Leaving the EU but remaining in the EEA
• Leaving the EU and EEA but remaining in a customs union
• Leaving the EU, EEA and customs union but retaining a close free-trade relationship with the EU
• A complete break with the EU
• Being free of the ECHR (which is a step further than leaving the EU because non-EU countries also recognise the ECHR)

You have chosen to interpret Leave as one of those last two options but the first option still has the UK leaving the EU - which is all that the (non-binding) referendum asked.

 

You don't seriously believe the ordinary voter would understand or analyse all those nuances cynically designed and worded to achieve a Remain result do you?

 

I have no idea - though I suspect that I credit the average UK voter with a significantly more intelligence than you seem to. You seem to have a very fixed idea of what Brexit means to you, but it's not one universally shared by Brexiteers. This is why it has proved impossible to get a majority of support for any one vision of Brexit.

It seems that one of the least popular options seems to be the one that you're advocating - a no-deal Brexit- with around 22% support.