Farage REVEALS brilliant plan to secure Brexit in 48 HOURS

Well excuse me for not wanting my country to be governed by un-elected foreigners, and for us to make our own laws and know that who is coming into our country mean us no harm? I'm surprised you don't think likewise??

 

It isn't

We can, and do

There's plenty of evidence from the security services that Brexit will degrade our ability in this regard.

I'm surprised that you want to see or capability in this regard degraded by Brexit.

 

....can you imagine white van man in Humberside trying to get his brain round all that....it'd fry his noggin....

 

I thought the only process was to enact Article 50 which is the first mechanism....after that its all a discussion....how would the EU27 be expected to proceed with a set of hypothetical situations such as those.... I mean its just absurd!!! Its taken 2 years for the Commission to just fcuk about with one let alone 5 different alternatives!!!

 

The issue is that UK wants the fixed menu A but wanted to make various substitutions, many of a higher value item.

If we were willing to adhere to the requirements for EEA membership or Customs Union membership then the EU would likely have agreed quickly. The issue is that we wanted the benefits of EEA membership but didn't want to abide by the rules (4 freedoms, contribute financially, adhere to EU rules among others) which is why we've ended up with Theresa May's dog's breakfast of a deal.

 

The fundamental reasons for leaving were ideological on both sides. Leavers wanted out of a federal superstate system, autonomy etc. Leavers wanted to be a part of the collective. The attempts to paint any of this as being about "the economy" is a big red herring put put by the losers who think it helps them.

The reasons the losers give for a second referendum are the same red herrings.

 

Do you think Norway would approve our membership of the EEA?

 

Absolutely absurd . . . especially as they all desperately want the status quo? They could so easily mischievously conspire to keep blocking or otherwise frustrating one issue after another, and stop us from leaving for effing decades?

 

I have no idea - all talk so far has been about a "Norway plus" arrangement and it is this to which Norway has objected.

 

Well according to this Britain is already a member of the EEA but according to something else I read Britain was a member of it from 1960 until it joined the EU and then left. I think the UK created it.

I thought you could join the EEA without joining the EFTA but it appears you cannot

http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=249

so that begs a few questions.

According to a video I was watching a couple of days ago and to refresh our memories during the Brexit Referendum a lot of Brexeters were expecting us to join this. According to that the EU also expected that was what we would do. That video also says the EU expected the UK to suffer some humiliation but mentions nothing about Norway. Now what I can remember was early on there was a lot of talk that Norway did not want the UK in EFTA - not least because the UK is such a large country and so demanding to get its own way that there was a fear that it would dominate it and override the voices of the smaller members who belong there. There is also an article saying that Norway was softening its stance and might consider the UK joining. However pretty soon after that the UK seems to have let go of all intention to go that route and instead start on its desire for a hard Brexit or a No Deal Brexit......so I am wondering if something like this was the situation. The EU knew that the UK would be given a hard time to join EFTA - it saw the UK needing to grovel and make lots of promises that it would not be demanding everyone do exactly what it wanted - maybe this was where the EU imagined the UK suffering humiliation as it had to beg this way and that. However the UK on sensing that this might be what it had to go through immediately decided to stop that option. The thought of humiliation being worse to the Tory government than the economic survival of the UK - that is the ego of the Tory Government being so big it would not even chance such a situation. Instead it thought it could beat everyone at that by going by No Deal which would also harm others in the EU. Where the Tories went wrong there was the loss will be far less to the EU and easily recovered from, so it will be prepared to take a short term loss in order to put anyone else off of trying this.

This is all a guess. Perhaps The Don can fill us in.

another article on the EU joining EFTA
https://theconversation.com/could-t...ree-trade-association-efta-after-brexit-81208

 

Which kind of highlights the point you suggested about the number of questions one could have asked the UK public. The EEA has trade agreements with various countries which have been negotiated and structured by the EEA members in respect of their collective interests - would Norway or any of the other countries want to have an economy the size of the UK entering that group and thus unbalancing the structure or would the UK want to be tied to trade deals made by Norway or Lichtenstein etc. that are binding on all members. Bearing in mind that all countries would have to agree to the entry into the EEA of the UK and that each country holds a veto. It kind of left that hubris filled smarmy @rsehole Cameron only one option and that was to ask the people the only question he could ask. All the other questions you highlighted presuppose an acceptance of those alternatives as being already agreed by all the principals involved when it patently is not the case.

 

You can via the EFTA route but you have to agree to their ts and cs and then you get in...so long as they agree to your membership....which is not a given.
Since the joining EEA would be roughly the same is being in the EU without a seat at the table it kind of begs the question why bearing in mind the UK voters didn't want to be in the EU full; with a seat at the table....all good fun huh....

 

And had it not been for Farage he wouldn't have asked it. No wonder all the flakes and loony left simpletons hate him.

 

...and...just maybe it should never have been ask...?

 

No, it isn't the same as being in the EU. Norway is not in the EU.

However you are right about in some respects it is the same but with no voice or so people say. Norway say they most certainly do have a voice - that is that all things are discussed with them beforehand and they have an input. Reducing an EEA deal to being the same but without a choice was an argument of stay during the Referendum. However it is not the same as being in the EU. They can for instance make other deals completely outside EU norms which countries inside the EU can't and of course there is absolutely no attempt at Political Union and I am sure much more.

The reality is many 'Leave' were promoting this outcome. That is the only thing I heard being suggested during the Campaign so the reality around Norway and the UK in no way justifies the talk which has gone on since. The UK did not try this. A no deal is going to be disastrous for the UK on every level. Those with assets are moving them out. The EU also expected the UK to join the EEA. The UK never tried discussions and if this is so impossible why does no one suggest the Norway plus deal is not possible. That is presumably such a deal without being in the EEA can be made or an agreement can be made for the UK to move back to the EEA, which makes it still a possibility.

What I notice is that those supporting Leave since the Referendum have changed what that meant to a very severe form of Brexit which everyone believes would have a drastic effect on our finances. You have said we will get better later. No way to know that. Timbuktu I hear was once one of the richest place on earth. Those with money will move their money out of the UK to safe places. We know they are doing that. There is no way to suggest we will be anything but a ragged puppet of the United States. Maybe we will eventually start succeeding but it is worth remembering we were the sick 'man' of Europe before we joined the EU.

 

indeed that and a whole truck load of other possible pie in the sky solutions, trouble is there's nothing one can do until one is out of the club. That's when all the discussions about options and alternatives can really start. All that's happening at the moment is people are running around like blue arsed flys not really achieving much at all.

which I guess in reality was what was going to happen anyway based on the aspirations of the EC Commission and the member states - at the moment it seems to be all about the politics of solutions not about actual solutions.

or China or Russia....? Think about Germany and their energy security in respect of Nord Stream2 for example? Its all a huge game and personally I'm betting that with the competing forces at work within the EU, that the EU will not be able to have coherent narrative that will see them through the next 20 years or so in its present state. There are just to many conflicting forces at work within the delicate EU structure. I'm probably wrong but its not looking very positive at the moment?

 

What I have been hearing is that if we leave with no deal then there is no time of transformation or whatever it is called. We are just out having lost all our trading arrangements and subject to the EU possibly treating us with charity for a month or two till we get used to it.

Well if there was a 'deal' for instance May's who no one likes, then the advantage would be that we would have a couple of years or however long it is to work it out. With No Deal we are just out. I think the No Deal people are expecting the EU to be on the phone immediately begging the UK to let them know anything they want and they will arrange it. That is what I have heard but also that the EU has no intention of doing this. It will accept no deal with the more limited damage it will do to the EU, using the UK as an example which will make sure no one ever tries again.

Russia under Dugan's plan hopes to end the EU and people instead joining the Eurasian union cutting off Europe's allegiance to the US and having it instead with Russia. It's plan is to give both Germany and France some more powerful position. It is not interested in the UK believing that being an Ireland, the UK will always be prone to being liberal. It sees for the future the US and the UK isolated and alone in the world. Both the attitude of the US and the UK leaving the Union are making that a more likely future. Not sure where China comes in.

 

My compliments for that one, Scotty. Not patronising you, but it's worth more than a Like?