Federal Bill Seeks To Block Sales Of Pistols Lacking Microstamping Technology

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by rover77, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. papabear

    papabear Member

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    I am not trying to compare any parties intelligence, thats a game for fools who obviously have their own insecurities in respect of same.

    I am just saying that if you could connect the shooter to the bullet it would be nice, same as technology that could connect a driver to a hit and run, or knife to the stabber.

    Obviously if you like violent crime and people getting away with this sort of thing GTA style you would prefer the world to revert to the stone age where there was even more capacity to commit crime anonymously then there is now.
     
  2. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    It would also be nice if people would not rape, rob, kill, or start wars. It would also be nice if animals wouldnt attack humans and meaty animals would impale themselves on your kitchen knife.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  3. papabear

    papabear Member

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    I agree, but the technological / moral leap to take away people free will is larger and harder then that to be able to connect more dots in a crime scene.
     
  4. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    What you are saying is its easier to restrict peoples freedom (take away their rights, force them to obey all kinds of regulations, monitor them) than to find and punish people who commit a crime. I hope you can see where that leads.
     
  5. papabear

    papabear Member

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    No I said the exact opposite.

    It is harder to take away peoples free will (which is different to the concept of individual freedom) then it is to improve science and crime scene to better match criminals to the crime scene.

    Sometimes I wonder.
     
  6. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    That's not quite what you posted, but I'll take it as basic misunderstanding.
     
  7. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you don't even need a new barrel. Fire 50 rounds, give the barrel a good cleaning with a proper brush, and the rifling marks no longer match.
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Saw a show where a serial killer, an ex cop, just removed the barrel on a revolver. Up close still deadly and no barrel markings.
     
  9. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Well-Known Member

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    That was actually a tactic of former El Paso lawman Dallas Stoudenmire, who pulled the barrels off of Colt single actions and liked to work in close. Those heavy .45 Colt slugs knuckle-balling into someone's torso at point blank range were devastating.
     
  10. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice, impossible, but nice.
     
  11. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    This has been the case since at the least the 17th century.
     
  12. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    This has been in place for quite some time. Centuries. in fact.
    Why are you not aware of this?
     
  13. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Actually, in the Stone age, there was less chance to do things anonymously. Not a particularly good example.
     
  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You missed the point. I shall let you.
     
  15. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member

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    No, you are not completely accurate. A reproduction or original cap and ball Colt revolver is not a firearm under federal law or this state's laws. Whether such a revolver is a "firearm" varies per each state's laws.

    For example, nearly all black powder cartridges are not available in the regular course of commerce. Accordingly, the firearm then still is "antique." However, most black powder cartridge revolvers can handle modern cartridges higher pressure (except top breaks) - though that is not the cartridge for it. Accordingly, there are no cartridges made for it so it still is antique, though other modern cartridges will fit and work. Still, it is an "antique."

    Numerous DA revolvers qualify in that ammo is not available in the "ordinary course of commerce." That just means reloads or original vintage ammo - or short run ammo, meaning not regularly for sale, but rather occasionally for sale. Generally that works on a waiting list and when there are enough interested another production run is made, often by modifying or cutting down modern brass.

    Your example of 44 rimfire? Originals can be purchased and reloaded if suspecting the powder bad, but unlikely it is. Rimfire cartridges can be reloaded a few times, just pay attention to where the previous indent is on the cartridge. Of course, most people can't or won't reload or bother trying to find someone to do it.

    Even pinfire ammo can be custom made, though costly. It is a shame pinfire ammo is not regularly available as many are quite beautiful guns. The lack of ammo keeps the prices extremely low. But, again, a person can have it custom made, which is not the "regular course of commerce."

    Cartridges over 100 years old still work 99% of the time and can be bought. Antique firearms are not the type of gun a person would send thousands of rounds thru at a range anyway. Fire a couple rounds to make certain it works and the ammo is still good, and its ready.

    The "key" to the cartridge question is the words "black powder." IF the firearm was made of black powder cartridges, and they are not "available in the ordinary course of commerce," any ammo you put in it doesn't change that it is still an antique gun. So, for example, if a modern 38 short will fit into a black powder 38 for which the cartridge for that model is not regularly commercially made, it is still an antique? If it will hold a 38sp with modern powder it is still an antique as it is not the ammo for that gun.

    Here's our state's law:
    1) “Antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    FEDERAL LAW FROM ATF WEBSITE:
    Firearms Verification
    Gun Control Act Definitions
    Antique Firearm

    18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(16)

    The term “Antique Firearm” means:

    A. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and

    [​IMG]

    B. Any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica

    [​IMG]



    1. is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

    2. uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade

    C. Any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term antique firearm shall not include any weapon which includes a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock or any combination thereof.

    [​IMG]

    The language matters. For example, there is no manufacturer of black powder cartridges for some antique DA revolvers I have THAT IS MADE IN THE USA. However, it is made in Italy and the UK. Thus, the revolvers still qualify as "antique." The only "American" cartridges I bought? Custom made, so not "readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

    Whether using an "antique" gun in crime qualifies as a gun crime will depend on each state's laws. Generally it does because courts twist the statute for allow enhanced sentencing.
     
  16. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member

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    for almost every crime, the public and the politicians have determined that the way to deter those crimes is by prosecuting the guilty and punishing them. yet for gun crimes, the overly concerned want all sorts of additional restrictions on the law abiding in order to prevent criminals from engaging in crime.
     
  17. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Anti's believe anyone not in agreement with their political ideology are will all become criminals if we possess a a gun and just to prove their point, want to make mere possession of a gun or certain accessories criminal offenses, thus anyone caught in possession is proven a criminal... there is an alt logic there.
     

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