Former Pink Floyd frontman sparks fury by comparing Israelis to Nazis

There are people who claim to this day that the Jewish Holocaust never happened. But I was at the death camps in Europe and saw the evidence first hand. I was also at the Palestinian concentration camps. Can you say the same? The fact is that you didn't when it counted. Those who actually are eyewitnesses to history tend to remember the fact that they were there and they witnessed it in person above all else.

 

Actually from what I have read the Poles had a death sentence on them and their entire family for helping a Jew in any way shape or form from hiding them to even selling them a piece of bread. Despite this, almost half a million Jews in Poland were saved by the Poles and, it should be noted that the Poles had no great love for the Jews and two, they weren't easy to hide as few spoke Polish well enough to blend in as they lived in their own society and few spoke fluent Polish.

 

What Palestinian concentration camp did you visit ? what was its name ?

 

I would imagine Gaza as that is frequently called a concentration camp however, no concentration camp that I have ever heard of allows people to come and go provided conditions are met nor do any of them allow for international travel complete with providing their own passport and, none of them provide for the dismantling of the border protection provided the population provides assurances they want peace rather than wish the destruction of the nation adjacent to it. In short, they are not captives and, if they consider themselves to be they can simply make peace and not be captives, hardly a concentration camp.

 

Oh, I so respected PF up til' I read the OT. Well here in the states there is SOME good news. A&E was forced to rehire, or unsuspended the redneck granddad star on ‘Duck Dynasty’ that did nothing more than express his sentiments. Pink Floyed is grand dad material too. Since I fuss loud I will end it by saying; I think the firing may have been a calculated move by A&E anyway, but that’s material for another thread. Happy, happy, happy, eh?


reva

 

I think he may have meant something else entirely! Lol. Palestinian doesn’t and hasn’t exist as an nation.

reva

 

Yes, I accept and did think after I should have asked you to confer.

Here is what you said

You are stating that there are concentration camps in Israel.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you may have been writing in a sloppy manner in your equivalence of nazi concentration camps and various bantustans etc in Palestine plus the situation of Gaza. It was you yourself who gave the false equivalence to concentration camps and that is at the very least, sloppy writing which certainly did not help this thread which then turned into an over exaggeration of what the pink floyd singer was saying in his way to help BDS which does not work on hate. Equivocating camps in Israel with nazi concentration camps is not being honest and, as TM said, by the exaggeration does not help the argument of both the Palestinians and those wishing to help them including the man on whom this thread is based.

I further used the word 'sloppy' because sometimes when people come on line they see they need to tighten up their thinking - equating Nazi Concentration camps with Palestinian bantustans may be something you can do with your friends. However it is not true. There are many differences and such talk also arouses strong feels which will make people develop a fixed view of you. In short you did not see Nazi style Concentration Camps in Palestine as you claimed.

 

From the Obersalzburg speech:
"I have placed my death-head formation in readiness-for the present only in the East-with orders to send to death mercilessly and without compassion men, women and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space which we need"
Adolf Hitler.

All Poles were under arbitrary sentence of death, irrespective of their faith. To maintain that Poland and the Poles were responsible for the death of all Polish Jews is both a gross fallacy and a blatant, xenophobic lie. Veracity is evidently not a concept with which the poster is familiar.

 

Nice try, but the camps were run by the Jewish state, and I was not allowed to enter them. I don't even know if they had names; the signs were not in English. And of course I have no pictures because we all know what happens to tourists who point a camera at a military installation. Nevertheless I was there and I saw it firsthand.

To reiterate my point, the striking semblance between the Israeli-run camps in Israel and occupied Palestine, and the Nazi-run camps in Europe is hard to deny.

 

As I mentioned several times before, Palestine is a territory, not a nation. Over the ages it has contained one or more sovereign states. Currently the land of Palestine is fully occupied by the state of Israel, however the boundaries of Israel proper do not extend to the borders of Palestine, even though Israel is sovereign over all of the land. You'll have to ask the Israeli government why they don't include the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights inside their national boundary.

When it comes to the concentration camps where Palestinian Arabs are detained, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and don't assume that they're complete and total idiots. If they choose to prove that point for themselves, that's their business.

 

The poster knows all about secret concentration camps in Israel, but has no idea that the Golan Heights was annexed by Israel.

 

In case it escaped your notice Poland was under Nazi watch. Now perhaps you might stop lying.
http://www.warsawuprising.com/paper/jankowski1.htm

 

Illegal annexations are simply that. Al Jazeera had a program on that last night called 'Last Shepherds of the Valley' as you try to steal this land destroying people's homes and livelihood and keeping from them access to water needed for survival and cultivation of the fields.

It also showed Israel Jews wrongly marking where their produce is made in order to avoid BDS. All this is to change. Laugh while you can.

 

Water under the bridge. I an typically more prolific in my writing, but since I've noticed that in this particular forum that most posters use very little words in support of their cause, I have felt little motivation to honor that lack of work with an abundance of my work. But since I replied to your post I have noticed that you have made some very good and insightful posts that I respect. So forgive me for being too quick to dismiss you.

No, that is not correct. I said that I had been in Israel, and had seen concentration camps. I recognize the blurred lines between what the state of Israel defines its borders as and the territories beyond those borders that it is sovereign over and occupies as an imperial force. Just because I don't make a lengthy disclaimer every single time doesn't mean that I'm somehow making implications that I never intended! As I've said before, I give others the benefit of the doubt and presume they are conversant on the subject matter unless/until they prove otherwise. Just because you leapt to a wrong conclusion does not mean that I did.

Again, you need to take care of your own part. I never read anything into your version. Take ownership of your part, and don't blame others for what they did not say!

The fact remains that I was there and saw it; you were not there, and are in no position to call me a liar.

I only reported what I saw, both in areas formerly occupied by Nazi Germany and territories that were occupied by Zionist Israel when I was there. The similarities is no doubt an inconvenient truth for those who make it their business to deny the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the state of Israel, just as the evidence against the Nazi Germans, the Bosnian slavs, the white South Africans, the Hutus, so on and so forth. But there is evidence that these things did happen!

 

The problem you have encountered is with symbolic nomenclature. 'Concentration camp' immediately conjures up images of Belsen, Buchenwald and Auschwitz. However 'concentration' is exactly what their original purpose was; to 'concentrate' a minority froup of 'undesirables' in one, easily managed (or killed) area. The walled enclave of Gaza is one such area.

 

I dont know what I was trying to pull exactly, I just asked where did you visit, what villages, what country part at least,

You say there are camps that are run by the Jewish state ? like guards and fences ? could it be that you saw the fence that seperates the WB from Israel ?

We shoot turists that take un-autherised pictures, ~15 tourists die each year for that (mainly from the UK) so you were very smart not to try it.

 

I agree with you and if anything I was supporting you when I said that. It is a fine line

OK. Concentration camps of the Nazi kind would be hard labour where the people are not given sufficient food to survive. When doing the full blockade of Gaza, Israel had experts who worked out exactly what they had to give the Palestinians to prevent starvation but no more. There was a definite and deliberate difference.

It could certainly be argued that Israel makes it impossible for people to earn a living through various means and that that results in people needing to leave their land but that does not fit into concentration camps definition. etc.

and as I have already said, if anything I was standing up for you. Mention of Concentration Camps or Nazi's on a thread concerning Israel have an emotional life of their own. As I said earlier there was someone who believes Israel is involved in active genocide of the Palestinians. Such emotive and incorrect statements obviously weaken the position of for instance Waters who can be seen as part of the growing world wide BDS movement. I am not claiming to never make mistakes myself, I am just saying that my motivation in making a comment about you when you were being attacked was not as you saw it....and I know people cannot always remember everything but this in my experience is the most crucial area not to exaggerate.

Oh you did read into my post what was not in it. There was talk going on about Israel being involved in genocide in Palestine. At that point your post came up with you claiming their were concentration camps. I felt that you ought to be given a chance to explain. I do not believe it is accurate to say there are concentration camps similar to the nazi's though I will accept it is a fine line. They certainly are getting concentrated in smaller and smaller space which they have great difficulty in moving about in, but certainly not the mass labour and starvation. Israel has been working consistently and in the past two or years at increasing speed in ethnic cleansing but she has not set up any thing which is equal to the 'final resolution'.

I have been there in the mid 70's. Again, I would say that that brings me back to what I suggested, that it was your impression. I am not denying that you felt like that, just that information which we can all get access to does not show that Israel has any nazi style camps where she demands forced labour and where her intent is to starve the inmates to death. Her intent without question is to make their lives a living hell in the hope they will leave but that is a bit different - and what we are working to change.

 

Interesting. I'd like to hear all about the secret camps that you allege. The only ones I've seen were in plain sight; I literally drove right by them!

 

Nice...Welcome to the fascist state that's Israel.

 

You have a policy of shooting our citizens yet I do not remember hearing of this regular activity on our news. Interesting.

 

I would imagine many people would see them as camps including the people stuck inside who need a permit to move and have to go through the humiliation and danger of checkpoints. Whatever you think and however it is for you, you cannot keep people looked up like this forever. It is indecent.

 

That was a joke....you dont hear about it because it does not exist....

Who can stop a person taking pictures while driving in the WB? the floating big brother camera ?

 

Not funny.

 

My apologies. I see the UK slant now

 

I agree, that reality should not continue, I hate the check points, I hated every second of it when I was stationed there, I want this stopped either by agreemnet or as one sided move but I want it stopped.

But to be fair, they dont need permits to travel within the WB (I know...), they need it to go into Israel, and that's still not "camps" run by Israel with guards and fences.