Gun Show Loophole exposed <<MOD WARNING ISSUED>>

So, you want everything that might disqualify you from buying a firearm, public knowledge ? I have nothing to hide, cause I get it done every four years. So I would have no problem. Who would really put up stink ? Maybe the nra and tha aclu might agree for the first time. Besides, you would overload the system having indiscriminate public access by anyone. Now, if you were a licensed dealer or a permit holder selling a registered weapon to another legal buyer, I would have no problem. You could gain access with your permit ID. As long as your ID and permit number is in file trying to gain access, fine I’d support it.

 

Ha ha, that’s funny
Everyone is an infrequent gun seller if no one reports it. Now, you can sell dozens of guns a year ( or month) and no one need know.
Correct me but, By law, if you’re a frequent seller/ buyer, you should get your FFL license regardless .

 

its not being properly enforced.

ATF needs to make its rules clearer.

 

But if the Heller standard were applied at the national level, and everyone who legally owns a firearm must have a firearms permit, would not such still serve to completely overload the system?

 

This standard does not exist under Heller, as Heller did not consider and thus did not uphold any license or registration requirement.

 

Ha ha The Rules ARE clear. You can buy and sell guns and there’s no requirement to report it. That’s why it can’t be enforced. If there were no requirement to pay the excise tax in our state on a car you bought privately, you wouldn’t do it. But, when you register the car, you pay it then.

 

That was my point. Read my post. If only permit holders were selling registered weapons, as they do with machine guns, it would not over load the system. Otherwise, you open any 10 year old with a phone access to your records...

 

All that a NICS background check returns is "approved", "denied", or "delayed"; exactly the same knowledge that would be gained by a private seller selling a gun through an FFL. The current system would be easily scalable, and I've had NICS checks take as little as 10 minutes. The buyer could also pre-check himself and have a 24 hour window to present his information to a seller.

Here's how Coburn's plan would work: A gun buyer would log in to a free federal web portal and enter some personal information. If the buyer passes the background check, he or she would get a multi-digit key code, good for 30 days, to print out and take to a seller. That seller would use the same portal to confirm the authenticity of the background check.

The self-service system, the Oklahoma Republican said, would bypass the cost and record-keeping requirements required by the current proposal, which would require the involvement of a federally licensed firearm dealer for sales at gun shows and over the Internet. It's unclear how much it would cost to create a public-facing portal, but Congress has already authorized more than $1.2 billion to improve the system available to law enforcement and licensed dealers.

 

Directly taken from the majority opinion. Heller does concede the local standard does exist and is permissible. He must register his weapon and must licence himself to carry it at home. It could not be any clearer. It is all part of the argument made by the plaintiff in HELLER DECISION.

“Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbi- trarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64.

 

Heller does not ban licenses or permits,

they are legal.

 

There is a grand total of 630,019 registered fully-automatic firearms in the united states. By comparison, there is an estimated four hundred million firearms in the united states that are not fully-automatic. If all firearms in the united states were registered just like fully-automatic firearms, it would indeed overload the system with great ease.

Then there is the matter of firearm ownership requiring a permit, and potentially being abided by, by all those who currently legally own firearms, with estimates being around one hundred million. That is a significant amount of numbers and details the federal government would be required to keep track of in a real-time basis, and update hourly.

Such would require said ten year old to not only know the name of the individual, but also their social security number. With the only information that can be garnered being whether or not the individual has been convicted of a felony.

 

That all sounds reasonable....
I have no problem....but, in addition the frequency used by a private citizen and ID ‘d to that seller as a gun sales through a permit or acceptable ID ( drivers license or passport) is necessary to track the number of sales. Then, as argued, before you can sell beyound a limit, you should have an FFL license. .

 

As stated previously when addressing the member Dagosa, this is not the sort of victory supporters of greater firearm-related restrictions would be hoping for. The united state supreme court specified that licensing cannot be issued or denied in a manner that is either arbitrary or capricious, which means absolutely anyone who has no disqualifying criminal record must be issued a license and/or permit upon application without exception. This would mean high fees, long wait times, and anything that may be deemed as discriminatory to the the economically disadvantaged would have to be done away with. The permitting process would serve no more purpose than the currently existing process of undergoing a background check from a federally licensed firearms dealer. The entire permitting process would be rendered redundant, and thus it would be shown as devoid of a legitimate for even existing in the first place.

 

The rules are quite clear: If its done as a business or with a primary motivation of profit, you need an FFL for even 1 transaction.
If its not that, you don't.

 

He didn't say it did. He said Heller did not consider permits and licenses, they were not before the Court.

 

This would certainly be one method to enforce that ruling.

 

I don’t want to here the numbers game being an inhibiting factor. We easily manage the nearly equal autos which each have registration, trans, motor and body ID numbers. We have computers for these easily managed static IDs.

 

Yes they were. It was part of the majority argument. Read the actual opinion. They agreed the gun registration and licensing regs WERE Permissible.

 

For reference: "We therefore assume that petitioners’ issuance of a license will satisfy respondent’s prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement." Section IV of the majority opinion.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html

 

The Gun Control Act on 1968 mandated the licensing of individuals and companies engaged in the business of selling firearms.
Engaged in the business.

 

" 3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64."

 

Correct.
it is impossible to honestly argue that Heller upheld licensing and registration requirements.

 

they weren't considered and therefore it is illogical and ignorant to state with certainty that Heller banned them

 

That also is correct.
Edit: we have seen, however, that licensing requirements for another Constitutionally protected right was found to be unconstitutional.

 

10. At what point should I obtain a Federal firearms license (FFL)? How do I obtain a FFL?

Federal law requires a Federal firearms license if you are engaged in the business as a firearms dealer, manufacturer or importer. A person is engaged in those businesses, as it applies to each license type, as follows: 1. Manufacturer of firearms -- a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured (18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(A)); 2. Manufacturer of ammunition -- a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured (18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(B)); 3. Dealer in firearms -- a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms (18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(C));

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download