Guns + Mental Illness Question

so when people make comments like... "get rid of the guns, and the violence will disappear"... means that proof demonstrating thats false, and getting rid of guns doesn't always remove the homicide rates, is suddenly irrelevant? do you realize how silly that sounds...

why don't you just be honest... and say... "I dislike your defense of this, and I reject it because I'm right and you're wrong, so anything you say is irrelevant and I'll sit here and say so and I'm always right so nothing you can say will ever matter, neener neener you have a small weener"

thats exactly how you sound...

I'm adding VERY relevant and important data to those who are making the statements, getting rid of guns decreases homicides... and I demonstrated with factual proof using ALL homicide statistics, that homicide rates INCREASE in every country that has strict guns laws, once we account for all homicides... and thats the american per capita rate of homicide, actually DROPS once we include all homicide rates...

dance around it all you want... factually, its accurate, its correct, and its highly relevant to those trying to make a stance against guns... crazy folks find another way to kill, thats not a win either...

 

So you're admitting to be mentally ill? (welcome to the club, btw)

 

http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Don-t-blame-crime-on-legal-gun-owners-97536.php
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/17/opinion/l-licensed-gun-owners-don-t-commit-crimes-884820.html
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/ (<--- Most firearms of all time, lowest rate violent intent with a firearm? Say whaaaa?)
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/ (Excellent references regarding firearm statistics)

Anything else you need help with?

 

Perhaps I've been too busy studying my dictionary but I seem to have missed all those mass knifings, baseball bat massacres and nunchak slaughters. Since you seem to think that guns are no more lethal than other methods I suggest you contact the Pentagon which might be somewhat disappointed in that they've invested so much in mis-arming the military.

 

I never stated the other methods are just as lethal in direct comparison of the weapon itself... I said that other methods accounts for the majority of their murder rate, hence why their per capita stats, dramatically INCREASE once you account for all forms of homicide, rather than sticking to the claim, guns cause all the deaths and violence...

I'm sorry YOU are struggling for a lifeline and can't find one "to spin your way out of this"...

 

Perhaps you can show me where I said " guns cause all the death and violence". Or anyone said it, for that matter. Gun homicide rate is higher in the US than other developed countries. If you wish to scream about knifing homicide rates or axe homicide rates then by all means start a thread. I look forward to the inevitable spin of how Bad Black People have perverted the honest use of carving and wood chopping tools.

Gun homicide rates. C'est tout, mon ami.

 

I never stated YOU said it... I said my reasons for posting the information I did, is in response to people who have stated that... and since I stated it, you jumped on me saying its irrelevant because this is "guns only" thread yadda yadda yadda... or are you forgetting that entire loop we just went through a few seconds ago...

P.S. once again you have suggested I made any comments solely related to black people being the cause... I never made it racial, I responded to your racist statements... please click the back buttons on the postings and re-read your own comments... that might help clear up your confusion... please stop being racist...

 

Whatever.

 

Spot on. Nice.

 

Gee. I give up. Maybe because there are no sharks in Kansas. Which would explain why there are so few gun homicides in other countries. Because there are many fewer guns. Good argument for gun control. You continue to surprise me. I guess I shouldn't have assumed you were an extreme right winger. My apologies. Honestly.

 

Toronto is North America's 5th largest city with just over 6 million. 49% of the city is foreign born. So you can't blame population or ethnic diversity. The latest stats I can find is 2014 when they had 28 murders using guns.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges as in all developed countries rates are higher in cities. Compare US city vs country and European country city vs. country and you'll be shocked. European countries have an extremely low gun murder rate in both cities and country.

For example in England, a country of 53 million, there were only 30 firearm murders in 2012. There is no way rural America has a lower rate than that.

 

I don't deny they have lower rates...

and I have made the comparison in one of the 20 other gun threads right now...

what I discovered was the same fact... in smaller towns and the countryside, even in europe, the rate dramatically drops, even compared to their already low rates in larger cities... however people always use the "average" per capita... so we just assume every european city is like that... but it follows the same pattern in america... its much more deadly to live in a larger city in europe as well, and their countrysides bring the average down, to where it rests and people report...

I think thats very interesting... american countrysides and tiny towns, are almost as safe as european ones... but once we enter larger cities in either scenario, the numbers dramatically rise to create the averages we end up with... and people focus on the entire nation as representative of that... when really, its condensed and confirmed to a few square miles...

thats something that should be in the major discussions...

and like I pointed out in many of the other threads... when I was able to compare racial makeup, poverty stats, you know the usual excuses people like to throw out to rationalize and justify it... it seemed to make almost NO difference in those smaller places... which lead me to further dive into more information and theories... forming the one I am sticking to now until I can find more data to suggest otherwise...

I believe, people in smaller towns and the countryside, depend on each other, and are less likely to harm each other... now combine that, with the fact people who live in these areas tend to prefer solitude more than the average person... just general, not every single person, but the overwhelming majority...

I believe, people in larger cities, don't depend on each other, more on the government to respond, and are more likely to harm each other as they see less value in the people... now combine that, with the fact people who live in these areas tend to prefer a more social environment than the average person... just in general, not every single person, but the overwhelming majority...

so combine those two things, cross them over all the racial and poverty data across america we can find... and it seems to constantly shake out and hold up... and when I apply this to other places around the world I am able to get the information for, it seems to once again hold up... but see when I go to these other countries, I don't rely solely on "gun deaths" for my facts, I use ALL homicides, since they have an increase in homicides of other categories of cause... which I think people need to really consider when making comparisons... just because one method was removed, doesn't mean the per capita rates are as low as they are stated... thats only for gun crimes, when you compare stabbings and other events, it goes up... and then go PAST that information, and look at actual "attempts" of murder... and you see they are almost as violent as americans are... its just their methods of attempt, are less likely to be fatal to the person, and hospitals are more apt to treat the wounds they received, but the sheer number of attempts per capita, are relatively similar... thats all mind blowing knowledge...

so ultimately the "results" show americans are worse... but the "attempts" demonstrate all these other countries are quite more violent than they appear to claim... its basically the old fancy manipulation of data to suit a cause... its accurate, but it doesn't paint the whole picture, people are still violent and evil, they just do it in a different way...

I find this all very fascinating the digger I deep and the more I uncover about the true humanity behind the scenes... the violence is still present, the method of delivery changes... (but mostly in those who seek out larger cities and more social areas, versus those who prefer solitude and calmness, one more apt to confront those who make them angry, versus one more likely to let things go)

 

Well we're talking about gun murders, not all murders. And as for your comments about methods changing but rates still being high let's look at one very large diverse city where people have been living cramped up in the city for thousands of years longer than the US has been a country. The population of London is 8.6 million.

Imagine that - a city of more than 8 million people with only 100 murders!

 

Your answer is silly. They are two different things.

- - - Updated - - -

40% of American serial killers are blacks.

 

40% of American serial killers are blacks.

and in Canada, the percentage of Chinese killing their parents is higher than other groups.

 

if you want to live in the environment with a bigger chance to be killed by gun, there is no problem.

 

nope, australia is awash in drugs

 

Canada will be a much better place, if there are only white people.

I do not like those hongkoongese. they all have a flat nose in all kinds of wrong shape.

 

There are 1.4 million Chinese in Canada.
There are 5 million east Asian and south Asian in Canada. it is horrible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Canadian

I wish they all go back to their own countries.
you can have your diversity.
diversity means sh-it in my dictionary.

 

The first two links are op eds with no link to data what so ever. They are opinion pieces that are regurgitating talking points from the NRA.

The second two links are about concealed gun owners in "proving" the claim that only 1% of all gun crime is committed by legal gun owners. A legal gun owner is much broader than one who has a CCL.

I am not arguing against CCL, but with CCL, you have to go through background checks along with having some sort of proficiency with firearm training. I just wish that is with all gun owners. We see too many where a child has access to a firearm and that firearm is not secured. The kids play and someone gets hurt, possibly killed.

 

every one wants to bring Canada into the discussion about gun control of it being a shinning example but they always fail to mention that Canada has twice the violent crime rate as the US

 

The underlying question which should be cleared without propaganda or lobby interests: Do the USA have a gun problem or a mentality problem. My preliminary suggestion: none of both.
Comparing murder, the different types of murderers have to be separated first:
"Simple" murderers (less than 3 victims in one single place of crime being comitted),
"Mass Murderers" (more than 3 victims, one crime scene),
Spree killers (more than 3 victims, multiple crime scenes),
serial killers: more than 3 victims over long periods of time, until killers are caught, incarcerated for other offenses or die.

That is important because "mass murders" and "serial. killers" often have psychical disorders and higher rates in one country as compared to another also can be a problem of health system.

Comparing mass murder between OECD states (relative to the country's population) the USA are on place 6 behind Norway, Switzerland, Finland, Slovakia and Israel (Data from 2013).
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/348...ntries-like-in-us-one-chart-proves-him-wrong/

Concerning serial killers the USA lead with 2625, followed by England (142), last place has Sweden (10). Those places don't change much when calculated relative to population. Numbers are accumulated until September 2014. From the 9681 victims of American serial killers 41.3% were shot, 23,34% strangled, 15,19% stabbed, 9.01% bludgeoned and 6.47% poisoned. All other killing methods are in the 1%-range.
Problem with comparisons: Law enforcement (the better, the more, because more killers are arrested entering statistics).
Motive: 60% of US American serial killers gave "lust" as killing motive and 46% have been physically abused during childhood or underwent extremely rigorous upbringing.
My opinion: The points above reveal some social problem or a problem of child education (in no other country of the world 7-year old boys are handcuffed for kissing a girl in school classes. In no other country of the world children are handcuffed at all and kissing and hugging is supported by teachers, not forbidden. ).

"Simple Homicide"
US Citizens own 310 Million guns, however those are concentrated on 40% of households. Because one potentially dangerous person is not more or less dangerous ownning one or one hundred firearms, it is estimated that each decrease of households owning firearms by 10% leads to a reduction of homicide rates by 3%. That gives a maximum reduction of 12% of homicides if all US citizens would be disarmed.
The rate of firearm related homicide amounts 3.6 / 100 000 in the USA (2010) as compared to 1.73 in France and 0.93 in Germany. Divided by race it was 14.6 /100 000 for black populations (decreasing from 30.1 / 100 000 in 2003), 1,9 /100 000 in whites and 1.0 / 100 000 in Asians (both down from approx. 4.0 in 2003). That means: the firearm homicide rate of white and Asia populations in the USA is similar or lower as compared with European countries. The firearm homicide rates reported from 2002 - 2005 for black Americans of 50.5 / 100 000 nearly corresponds to the country with the world's highest rate of firearm homicides: South Africa with 60. The reason seems to be that black Americans seem to think to have an alleged traditional right of self defense against "oppressive white majorities" and feeling themselves as "underprivileged minority" they seem to conclude, encouraged by civil right groups, to have a right to use violence against their alleged "opressors". If that is true, I do not know. It is from the last two publications I have linked bedlow. All others I found blame those, producing separated statistics as "racist". This way a problem seems to be ignored which is a problem of a subgroup of a general population and one of the obstacles for any solution is the refusal to accept it by the leaders of that subgroup, supported by political correctness advocates, who also are responsible for handcuffing 7-year old boys in Kindergarten. Besides true psychological disorders firearm related homicide in the USA seems to be a mental/social problem, those being responsible like evrywhere blaming others, in particular gun owners for it. Disarming the general population wouldn`t solve that problem. It would be shifted somewhere else, where ever that would be. Another damage however is still a damage.

That was the view from an outsider (France/Germany), medical doctor in ICU and emergency medicine with the hobby to collect literature about psychically deranged serial and mass murderers. The US Society is known to myself from hundreds of visits to various places, both professionally and for vacation. What I actually found in literature is linked below. If I forgot one, let me know or google yourself.

maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information%20Center/Serial%20Killer%20Statistics.pdf
http://www.theatlantic.com/national...key-questions-with-13-concise-answers/272727/
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/
www.colorado.edu/cspv/publications/.../FS-003.pdf
http://www.theacru.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ACRU_GunControl_finalpages.pdf

 

Actually, it is more like 20% according to this article.

 

Thank you for this completely irrelevant information.