Hamas fires rockets at Israel

And there's many Americans who hate Jews. Says nothing about the overall nature of American-Israeli
relations. Same for Israel - most Israelis love America. Quoting someone who doesn't love America is
telling a FACT rather than the TRUTH about these two nations.
Modern day Israel is the homeland of the Jews. It is not the homeland of the Arabs. Having said that,
after the 1948 war many Arabs chose to stay in Israel - they are among the most free and prosperous
Arabs in the Middle East. Palestinians get to tell the Jews they can't worship on their own temple mount.
I am sure that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.

 

You've chosen to ignore all the truths I've both written and supported that prove Israel to be a ruthless & brutal occupier and deceitful and parasitic faux "ally" and gone off on your own unrelated diatribe.
Fine.
Loyal Americans who feel that America deserves a better ally and condemn ruthless Israeli ethnic cleansing do not "hate Jews."
They simply realize that it is not in America's best interest to be complicit in Israel's murderous and criminal behavior especially when Israel openly betrays America over and over with not only impunity but reward.
Enough is enough. It's long past time that America stop subsidizing the criminal atrocities of of this parasitic pariah.

Re:

Nonsense. I've already shown where non Jews comprised Palestine's vast majority since the beginning of modern history and up to modern times. Palestine's native, non Jewish population inhabited what is now Israel long before the arrival of "pure race", Nazi trained & armed(1) Zionist terrorist gangs and militant Jewish land thieves.

Re:

Why wouldn't they try to stay on land in which they had lived for generations and long before the arrival of foreign Zionist terrorist gangs and foreign, militant Jewish squatters?
Regrettably, they've had little success as these same murderous, foreign occupiers destroy their homes, poison their crops, pollute their water, dump raw sewage into their villages & kill their ancient olive groves. (Please see my earlier Post # 847)



(1) “Zionism and the Third Reich”
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

EXCERPT “In cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some forty camps and agricultural centers throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine.
Haganah-SS collaboration even included secret deliveries of German weapons to Jewish settlers for use in clashes with Palestinian Arabs." CONTINUED

 

Holocaust deniers will disagree with you.
Pro Islamo Arabo Jihado included.

 

Grau.
You know the Christmas story? Jesus born in BETHLEHEM?
And King David, the guy who ruled over JERUSALEM?
And Solomon, the guy who built the TEMPLE?
There were no Arabs in this story - they conquered the land of Israel 1600 years
after King David. By this time the Jews had been in Roman exile for at least five
centuries.

 

Thank you, yes I do know of the Christmas story that is part of Judeo-Christian mythology and I've also been to the Levant and studied Ancient Middle Eastern history which is fascinating.

The Levant was inhabited by many non Jewish tribes long before the arrival of the Ancient Israelites. The Israelites ruled Palestine for only for brief periods of time off and on until Roman rule, then Islamic rule, then Ottoman rule, then British rule.

The reason that there is no mention of Arabs in the Christmas story other than the Three Kings is because they are not relevant to the story.

As I mentioned earlier, the Jewish population of Palestine was only 3% - 4% in the mid 1800s but it grew later because of foreign Jewish immigrants who came from far away. The Haavara Agreement between Germany's National Socialist government and Germany's Zionist organization was just one of several efforts to deport Germany's Jews to Palestine that were eventually thwarted by the British.

Briefly put, today's Israeli Jews are in no way related to the Ancient Israelites in the Old Testament. Their "Homeland" is more likely to be Brooklyn or Russia than the Levant.

 

You know. Grau, when we talk about "mythology" we need to be honest - if Jesus was mythic then so too were
people like Hannibal, for whom no proof exists. And the number of things considered biblical 'myth' that have been
unearthed has grown over the decades. I grew up being told 'there's no evidence for King David' for instance - well
that's all changed now. On Wikipedia yesterday I looked up Moses and the Red Sea - some Egyptian archaeologist
said it never happened because there's no evidence: that's bad science.
Another myth is that Judaism is a religion only. Google 'Levite Moses DNA haplotype Cohen.' We can trace a genetic
line of Jews back to Moses. This man BTW came out of Egypt at the end of the Bronze Age - an age when nations
everywhere were on the move. The descendants of these Hebrews have been scattered widely but they are all coming
back to Israel now - as the bible said they would.

 

We obviously share an interest in ancient Mid East history / mythology even though our opinions differ as to the legitimacy of Israel's ethnic cleansing agenda.

I was interested enough in Ancient Mid East history / mythology so that I felt compelled to spend 10 - 11 months walking and hitch hiking around the region visiting ancient sites and archeological digs throughout Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran. I had intended to see Israel, Egypt and other countries but my travels were cut short by the '73 War.

What I have gleaned from both my travels and studies is that what we "know" about ancient figures such as King David is a combination of myth and historical fact. What I have gleaned from 70 years on this planet is that everyone has at least a small amount of bias.
While you may want to believe that the Jews around the world are direct descendants of the Ancient Hebrew warriors the fact remains that most of the world's Jews are entirely unrelated to anyone in the Mid East.

The topic of this thread has to do with the conflict between Palestine's native non Jewish residents & Israel's current occupiers most of whom either came from far away or are descended from someone else who also came from far away. Since in the mid 1800s, Jews comprised only 3% - 4% of Palestine's population, it is highly unlikely that Netanyahu, for example, is any more related to King David than I am to Atilla the Hun.

Additionally, I do not see the arrival of additional Jewish settlers as anything that is likely to produce a positive outcome since settlement sprawl is already among the key factors behind Israeli - Palestinian hostilities.

Thanks,

 

When you say 'unrelated' you need to define that better. You can be a 'Jew' because you marry a
Jew, and you can be a 'Jew' because you attend a synagogue. But there's a genetic Jew, and that
is now clear. If your name is Cohan/Cohan (etc for spelling) and you are a Jew there's a 50% chance
you are related to Moses.
The only 'ethnic cleansing' in Palestine were the various attempts by Arabs to drive out or kill Jews.
Many Arabs live peacefully within Israel, and as a 2020 poll showed - they don't want to be ruled from
Ramallah.
Yes, we know there's a 'house of David' now. So the more educated will say 'the stories of David are
mythic in character.' That's a retreat from 'King David did not exist.' I call this 'skepticism in the gaps.'
But Hannibal was also mythic - how could he take an African army with elephants over the mountains
in the winter, attack Rome itself and win non-stop victories for 12 years? And his nemesis Scipio was
said to be born of the gods. So I put it to you we have more evidence for Moses than for Hannibal.

 

True.
Must add that the ONLY ethnic cleansing in the Middle East was acted by Arabs on other Arabs.

 

Very on topic: rockets fired now from Gaza on Ashkelon, Ashdod, Palmachim, and Tel Aviv area. It's the middle of the night here.

Rishon le'Zion now too.

Videoclips here:
https://www.hamal.co.il/

Hebrew only and too many ads, sorry.

 

From early September, or August?

Could be linked to an Israeli Cat's Paw action in Tehran, August 7.

Al-Qaida's No. 2, Accused in U.S. Embassy Attacks,
Is Secretly Killed in Iran​

Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah, who went by the nom de guerre Abu Muhammad al-Masri, was gunned down on the streets of Tehran by two assassins on a motorcycle on Aug. 7, the anniversary of the embassy attacks. He was killed along with his daughter, Miriam, the widow of Osama bin Laden’s son Hamza bin Laden.

The attack was carried out by Israeli operatives at the behest of the United States, according to four of the officials. It is unclear what role if any was played by the United States, which had been tracking the movements of al-Masri and other Qaida operatives in Iran for years. . .
https://www.yahoo.com/news/al-qaidas-no-2-accused-151041953.html



Moi

​

 

Yeah, interesting, that one.
If true then the real issue is that Iran hosts such people - not that they got what was coming to them.
Just like Pakistan's double game with the Talibans.
Western nations are in this together. I support what Israel/America do here. We Aussies cheer them
on, but wouldn't use lethal force. What we would do is ask Iran to hand the suspects over so they could
be tried in Australian courts and given a 5-10 year sentence. Of course, Iran wouldn't comply. So what
Western operatives do in targeting these guys is fine with me. Israel began doing this after the Munich
Massacre when it was painfully obvious no nation was going to hand over suspects, not even the Germans.

 

What aboot Julian Assange.



One of Yours.
An Aussie. Ignored by Australia.

 

I was always surprised by the tolerance and moderation of the Israelis.
If anyone had fired missiles at my city I would have shelled it until it was destroyed.

 

He's not 'ignored' by Australia. Our view of the guy tends to align along political lines.
But if he was a Muslim activist then Britain would be more circumspect about extraditing
him to America - England could expect Islamic fascists to ramp up attacks on the nation.
America isn't going to launch terror attacks to get Assange extradited.

 

Hamas has much sympathy from Arab and Western nations. For Israel it's a case of damned if you
and damned if you don't.

 

Egypt hates Hamas.

 

Sure, but Egypt is an exception. And if the govt is overthrown then that might change.

 

Why Do the Arabs Hate the Palestinians?

For many reasons, the Arab world is not at all interested in giving the Palestinian Arabs a state. The Palestinian Arabs don’t really want one either, because why kill the “refugee” goose that lays the golden eggs?

In Israel and in much of the Western world, we tend to think the Arab world is united in its support for the Palestinians—that it wants nothing more than to solve the Palestinian problem by giving them a state, and that all Arabs and Muslims love the Palestinians and hate Israel. This is a simplistic and incomplete view. While it is true that many, perhaps even the majority, of Arabs and Muslims hate Israel, there are a good many who hate the Palestinians just as much.

Their hatred of Israel stems from its success at surviving despite wars, terror, boycotts, and constant enmity. It stems from the fact that a Jewish state exists even though Judaism, in the Muslim view, was superseded by Islam, the “true religion.” This hatred is exacerbated by other stark disparities: Israel is a democracy while many Arabs and Muslims live under dictatorships; Israel is rich while many Arabs and Muslims are poor; Israel is a paradise compared to some Arab countries, many of which resemble nothing so much as the last train stop before hell (see Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan; the list goes on). In short, they despise Israel because it has succeeded in areas where they have failed.

But why should they hate the Palestinian Arabs? After all, the Arab narrative says the Palestinian Arabs’ land was stolen and they were forced to become refugees. Surely they are deserving of unreserved support?

The answer to this question is complex. It is a function of Middle Eastern culture that neither Israelis nor most Westerners fully understand or recognize.

One of the worst things to experience, in Arab eyes, is to be cheated, fooled, or taken advantage of. When someone attempts to cheat an Arab—and even more so, if that person succeeds—the Arab is overcome by furious anger, even if the person who did the cheating was his own cousin. He will call on his brother to take revenge on that cousin, in line with the Arab adage: “My brother and I against my cousin—and my brother, my cousin, and I against a stranger.”

Regarding the Palestinian Arabs, the first point to make is that many of them are not originally Palestinians at all. They are immigrants who came to the Land of Israel from all over the Arab world during the British Mandate in order to find employment in the cities and on the farms the Jews had built. These immigrants still have names like Hourani (from Houran in southern Syria), Tzurani (from Tyre in southern Lebanon), Zrakawi (from Mazraka in Jordan), Masri (the Egyptian), Hijazi (from the Hijaz province of the Arabian peninsula), Mughrabi (from the Maghreb), and many other names that point to their true geographical origins. Why, ask the other Arabs, should they get preferential treatment over those who remained in their original countries?

Starting with the end of the 1948 Israeli War of Independence, the politics in the Arab world began to center on Israel and the “Palestinian problem,” the solution to which was to be achieved by eliminating Israel. In order to succeed in that mission, the Arab “refugees” were kept in camps, with explicit instructions from the Arab League that they be kept there and not absorbed into other Arab countries.

UNRWA ensured that they were provided with food, education, and medical care without charge—that is to say, the nations of the world paid the bill, even as the Arab neighbors of these eternal “refugees” had to work to provide food, education, and medical care for their own families by the sweat of their brow. “Refugees” who were supplied with free foodstuffs, such as rice, flour, sugar, and oil, for the use of their families, would often sell some of it to their non-refugee neighbors and make a tidy profit.

Residents in the refugee camps do not pay municipal taxes. This tax exemption has led a significant number of “refugees” to rent out their homes and collect exorbitant sums in comparison with those renting apartments in nearby cities. In other words, the world subsidizes the refugees’ taxes, and the refugees line their own pockets.

In Lebanon, several refugee camps were built near Beirut, but they were incorporated into the expanding city and then turned into high-class neighborhoods with imposing high-rise apartment buildings. Someone profited from this change, and it was not the man in the street. He has every reason to feel cheated.

The Palestinian “refugee” camps in Lebanon were taken over by armed organizations, from the PLO to ISIS, including Hamas, the Popular Front, the Democratic Front, and Salafist jihadist organizations. These groups acted viciously toward the surrounding Lebanese citizens, and in 1975 brought on a civil war that lasted for 14 long years of bloodshed and destruction. The war saw hundreds of thousands of Lebanese forced to leave their villages only to enter into lives of horrible suffering in tent camps all over the country. Many took refuge in Palestinian “refugee” camps, but the Lebanese refugees received less than 10% of what Palestinian Arabs received. This too caused much internecine jealousy and hatred.

In 1970 in Jordan, the Palestinian terror organizations, led by PLO head Yasser Arafat, attempted to take over the country by establishing autonomous regions of their own in the north, complete with roadblocks and armed Palestinian Arabs who challenged the monarchy. In September 1970, known as “Black September,” King Hussein decided he had had enough and would show them who was boss in Jordan. The war he declared against them cost thousands of lives on both sides.

Meanwhile, in Israel, 20% of the citizenry within the pre-1967 borders is made up of “Palestinian” Arabs who do not rebel or fight against the state. In other words, the “Palestinians” living in pre-1967 Israel enjoy life in the only democracy in the Middle East, while the Arab countries sacrifice their soldiers’ blood to liberate “Palestine.” Many an Arab soldier has been exploited by having his life put at risk for the sake of this meaningless cause.

Worse still is what every Arab knows: Palestinian Arabs have been selling land to Jews for at least a century, profiting immensely from the deals, and then wailing to their Arab brethren to come and free “Palestine” from the “Zionist occupation.”

Over the years, the Palestinian Arabs were given many billions of euros and dollars by the nations of the world, so that the yearly per capita income in the PA is several times greater than that of the Egyptian, Sudanese, or Algerian man or woman in the street. Their lives are many times better than that of Arabs living in Syria, Iraq, Libya, and Yemen, certainly over the past seven years.

On a political level, the Palestinians have managed to arouse the hatred of many of their Arab brethren. In 1990, Arafat supported Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. In revenge, Kuwait, once it was freed of the Iraqi conquest, expelled some 400,000 Palestinians, most of whom had been living in the emirate for decades, leaving them destitute overnight. This led to an economic crisis for their families in the West Bank and Gaza, who had been receiving regular stipends from their relatives in Kuwait.

Today, Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad are supported by Iran, a country abhorred by many Arabs who remember that airplane hijackings and the ensuing blackmail were invented by the Palestinian Arabs. It was they who hijacked an El Al plane to Algiers in 1968, 52 years ago, beginning a period of travail still being endured by the entire world.

Despite the 1989 Taif agreement, which ended the civil war in Lebanon and was supposed to lead to the disarmament and dissolution of all the Lebanese militias, Syria allowed Hezbollah to keep its arms and develop its military power unrestrainedly. The repeated excuse was that the weapons were meant to “liberate Palestine” and would not be aimed at the Lebanese. To anyone with a modicum of brains, it was clear that the Palestine story was a fig leaf covering the sad truth that the weapons were going to be aimed at Hezbollah’s Syrian and Lebanese enemies. “Palestine” was simply an excuse for the Shiite takeover of Lebanon.

Worst of all is the Palestinian demand that Arab states refrain from any relations with Israel until the Palestinian problem is solved to the satisfaction of the PLO and Hamas leaders. A good portion of the Arab world cannot find any commonalities that could unite the PLO and Hamas. As they watched the two sides’ endless squabbles ruin any chances of progress regarding Israel, they gave up on the belief that an internal Palestinian reconciliation can be achieved.

To sum up the situation, the Arab world—that part of it that sees Israel as the only hope in dealing with Iran—does not appreciate the expectation that it must mortgage its future and its very existence to the internal fighting between the PLO and Hamas.

And let us not forget that Egypt and Jordan have signed peace agreements with Israel, moved outside the circle of war for the “liberation of Palestine,” and forsaken their Palestinian Arab “brothers,” leaving them to deal with the problem on their own.

Much of the Arab and Muslim world is convinced that the “Palestinians” do not in fact want a state of their own. After all, if that state were established, the world would cease its steady donations of enormous sums. There would be no more “refugees,” and Palestinian Arabs would have to work just like everyone else. How can they, when they are addicted to handouts that come with no strings attached?

One can say with assurance that 70 years after the creation of the “Palestinian problem,” the Arab world has realized that no solution will satisfy those who have turned “refugee-ism” into a profession. The “Palestinian problem” has become an emotional and financial scam that only serves to enrich the corrupt leaders of Ramallah and Gaza.
https://besacenter.org/perspectives-papers/do-arabs-hate-palestinians/

 

Yesterday Palestinians fired 25 rockets at Israel.
What would you do if your neighbor fired rockets on your house and your family ??

 

Who else should they shoot at?

Find out who shot first - listen to their grievances - maybe give them back their property.

 

Nobody !

Israel left Gaza and by doing that deported thousands of Jews from their homes.
What do you mean "give them back their property" ?

 

It wasn't "nobody" who stole their land and homes.

... from "whose" homes" did you say?

You think maybe rockets are shot by Gazans alone? Oj vay! Take a look at a map of Israel when you get some free time.

 

You can call it "nobody" because "nobody" stole nothing from Gaza.

Theirs.

I agree.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah from Lebanon fire rockets at Israel.

 

"Nobody". Is that what you call zionists these days?

The Palestinians', yes.

I guess it's fair. Kinda like the US bombing Irak or Afghanistan, or Serbia, or Cuba, or Grenada, or Libya or Syria, huh.