How to end the shutdown.

Public opinion would be firmly on their side - Says who?
Those who regularly fly might side with the TSA
Everyone else already has a poor opinion of government workers and especially the TSA.

The Democrats are the cause of any hardships government employees suffer as the Democrat leadership refuse any kind of compromise to get this situation resolved. Consider the fact that 5.7 billion dollars is chump change to these tyrants who would see illegal aliens favored over working Americans. Most government workers tend to vote Democrat and here they are, being thrown under the bus by their own party.

Why does the Democrat Party favor criminal illegal aliens? Why do they want to keep the borders wide open to allow the unrestrained flow of drugs, weapons, disease and criminals into the United States?

Democrat Leadership has proven time after time that they follow the money - so where is the money supporting the unrestrained flow of drugs, weapons, disease and criminals coming from?

 

I do not disagree. I liked your post. But I assume you know that EVERY "non lethal" weapon ever used can (and has) killed people before. In particular rubber bullets (used in various U.S. cities) are fully capable of killing someone if they hit them in the head (and have).

Some say the development of a truly effective "stunning" device like the phaser settings on Star Trek would have massive repercussions for any form of civil unrest or even protest. Why should police risk getting themselves hurt or injured or see innocent bystanders suffer or property damaged if they can simply "stun" a massive crowd non lethally at no risk to anyone?

 

There's no ideal solution, unfortunately. Even if we had a "stunning" devise like the one you mention, somebody would get a migraine headache, get some lawyer from the ACLU, sue the government for a few million dollars -- and that would be the end of that.

No, it would be better to make them puke and cry....

 

Actually it is very feasible to have enough drones to cover the entire border. You might not be aware of the fact that it has already been successfully deployed. It just needs to be expanded.

https://gizmodo.com/u-s-border-patrol-flew-more-drone-missions-last-year-t-1829323612

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/border-patrol-testing-drones-to-be-its-eyes-in-the-sky

As far as your suggestion that the BLOTUS arbitrarily VIOLATES the Hildago Treaty I am 100% opposed because it is also violations of the Constitution, State and Individual rights on OUR side of the border.

The BLOTUS is way too INCOMPETENT to negotiate his way out of a paper bag so let's not give the Cretin-in-Chief anything else to screw up.

Yes, the border does need more drones and deterrents but let's keep our sense of perspective. It is NOT a crisis and it does NOT warrant escalating any further. What would work would be a BOYCOTT of the BLOTUS by the media for a month IMO. Don't even report on his twitter rants. ignore anything and everything that he says and does. No mention of him at all. That will have him begging for attention within a week.

In other words treat him like the man-child that he is and deny him what he craves.

Who knows, he might grow up and learn to behave like an adult?

 

The mainstream media already hate Trump's guts, Te. They already feast on everything negative about the man that they can find (and, yes, there's no shortage of provender for them). But I fail to see how a 'boycott' on reporting anything about the President of the United States is useful or even POSSIBLE.

Truth: If the "Nancy and Chuck Show" could reopen the government by themselves, they'd have already done so!

Next, the treaty you referred to as "Hildago" is actually the "Hidalgo Treaty" of 1848. This 171 year-old treaty that concluded the U. S. - Mexico War provided for California, Texas, and nearly all of Arizona and New Mexico becoming part of the United States. It also appears to have included provisions for responses to Indian raids, and other "wild West" concerns of the 1800's, but in glancing over the terms I didn't see anything that relates to the problems of millions of illegal aliens pouring into our country. Please tell me what I'm missing.

I'm only trying to take a pragmatic approach to this mess, Te. I'm trying to think of the most expedient ways to get the f*cking government back open, and to finally get a solution agreed-to that will finally end (END) the illegal alien catastrophe that has had the effect of a broken sewer pipe in our country for decades!

And, given what we are seeing all too clearly in Washington D. C. this morning, I become increasingly convinced that the best, and fastest way to achieve what MUST be done is to force the Mexican government to take action! The Mexicans can do it, I have absolutely no doubt -- but they must be given the right 'motivation', in the right 'dosage'....

 

The BLOTUS craves attention! Denying him attention will force him to negotiate on reasonable terms.

You FORGOT about the asshat behind the curtain when it comes to Chuck and Nancy. The ONLY REASON that Congress has NOT overridden the BLOTUS is because Mitch McConnell is OBSTRUCTING any such bill from coming to the floor of the Senate. Don't blame Chuck and Nancy for Mitch's nefarious MALFEASANCE! He is EQUALLY to blame as your BLOTUS for continuation of the shutdown. He is playing partisan politics because he KNOWS that there are 24 GOP Senators up for election in 2020 and he doesn't want any of them to have to accused of voting AGAINST a bill to reopen the government. It doesn't get any more SLIMY than that when it comes to partisanship. 800,000 hardworking Americans are being screwed over for no better reason than that Bitch McConnell wants to remain Majority Leader in the Senate.

The Hildalgo Treaty (yes, I did make a typo) contains a clause that essentially prevents the building of anything that obstructs river commerce and movement between the two nations IIRC.

https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=26&page=transcript

In essence that clause negates the building of anything along that stretch of the border WITHOUT the consent of BOTH nations. It was agreed upon to be a neutral zone for commerce and travel without any hindrance on either side.

The most expedient manner to get the govt reopened is for yourself and everyone you know to start DEMANDING that McConnell allow a floor vote on the Senate. Tell that POS that ALL of you will do your utmost to ensure that he is DEFEATED in 2020 unless he reopens the government NOW.

 

You seem quite upset right now, and you're back to calling Trump MY "Blotus". I did vote for the man, and given the choice we had in 2016, would cheerfully do so again. So, I'll just have to 'weather your storm' in the interest of trying, somehow, to find a way to arrive at an understanding with you... for I do feel that your views represent many on the Left, Te.

Thank you for providing the actual text of the treaty... it is an interesting document, written with a fullness and clarity no longer used by anyone in the United States anymore. Well, to the point, although (as you know) I have NEVER liked the original "Wall" as described in Trump's original Executive Order, now he has scaled that back dramatically, and, with some remaining misgivings, I can see how a 'barrier' in some select locations can be an effective aid in controlling uncontrolled invasion by 'migrants' and other aliens.

Although I don't know what, or where, Trump's revised "barrier-plan" would be, it doesn't make me believe that the deployment of it would impede or negate free navigation of the waterways and rivers described in the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

Do you understand that in many parts of the border, several months of the year, even the Rio Grande River is little more than a trickle? You've probably read my posts where I described being able to walk over about 20 feet of higher stones and cross the Rio Grande "River" from El Paso, Texas to Juarez, Mexico -- without even getting my socks wet! For quite a bit of the year, Te, you couldn't "navigate" a toy sailboat over considerable lengths of these 'waterways' through the desert-mountain areas because the water isn't deep enough! I'm not lying to you.

Nevertheless, any 'barrier' that we build must (MUST) be located entirely on our side of any and all 'waterways' -- or at least that's my opinion. Sure, in theory, we own everything up to and including half the width of the river itself, but it would far better to keep the barrier on the dry land of American soil. This would allow Mexico to "navigate" the waterways that make up those portions of our common border....

Perhaps we agree more on the necessity of getting the damned government totally OPEN again! And I'm coming to think that you're right in one respect -- the entire Congress, both House and Senate should be allowed to vote on any and all plans to do just that. The president does, of course, have the right to veto any legislation passed onto his desk, but the elected representatives of 'We, the People' should have the right to VOTE on legitimately-constructed bills brought before them -- AS our representatives.

But remember one thing, Te -- the president does have the duty, and the right, to take measures like sealing the border totally SHUT for reasons he deems to be in response to a national emergency, even though there's obviously a lot of quibbling and bitching about what a "national emergency" is. I, for one, believe we've got a completely out-of-control situation with illegal aliens committing murders, dealing drugs in enormous quantities, and numerous other crimes RIGHT NOW!

Afterword: I still think that the best way to bring a stunning and virtually immediate END to this 'illegal alien'-problem is to get the Mexican government to participate. Believe this if nothing else -- they could do it if they WANTED to....

 

Rats! I was trying NOT to associate you with the BLOTUS but I slipped up! Mea culpa!

I disagree about the barrier being entirely on our side of the river(s) for the simple reason that it violates the Hildalgo Treaty as far as Americans are concerned. We the People have an EQUAL right to the "navigation" of those rivers irrespective as to whatever "trickle" of water might be in them.

Let me reiterate that there is NO CRISIS and NO "out-of-control situation with illegal aliens". That is unadulterated rightwing DISINFORMATION. The flow of illegal immigrants across the southern border has been steadily declining throughout the Obama administration and is currently at all time LOW. If you don't believe me just look it up for yourself on nonpartisan credible sites.

Furthermore let's STOP erroneously conflating drugs with immigrants. They are NOT the same thing. People seeking ASYLUM are NOT going to turn up at the US border carrying 75 lbs of drugs. That fallacy is so ludicrous that it is hard to understand why you are even entertaining it. Yes, drugs are a problem but they are a SEPARATE and DISTINCT problem from immigration.

Asylum seekers are not dealing drugs or committing crimes like murder. You accused me of being "upset" but that seems like projection since you are the one who is not looking at the issue rationally and logically. We do have a drug problem which is NOT the same thing as the DIMINISHING immigration problem. Conflating them makes no sense whatsoever.

As far as getting the Mexican government is concerned that is NEVER going to happen as long as we have that orange turdstain in the Oval office. He has zero diplomatic and negotiating skills and even the Mexicans consider him to be a laughing stock.

Mexico is not going to solve either of these problems for us so let's not waste time going down that road, m'kay?

 

Ah... where to begin? We do agree on some aspects of this whole "Wall/barrier" thing, and the whole "crime/drug/'asylum-seeker'" thing. We disagree on much else -- including WHY tens of thousands of 'migrants' have been pouring in here (or attempting to) for so long. "Asylum"? Much more likely it's the simple human desire to 'live a better life', whether through easily-available low-skill jobs, or abundant handout-welfare from an overly-generous government....

Maybe I'm just too close to it here in Colorado, even though we are not a 'border state'. A part of nearly every single newscast in larger Colorado cities you hear on radio, see on TV, or find on the 'net, covers murders and numerous other crimes committed by people with "Latino" surnames... and many of whom are later identified at some point as being illegal aliens (or, "undocumented immigrants", as the liberal news-combines prefer to call them). When you're not busy sometime, browse through the webpages of The Denver Post, the Colorado Springs Gazette, and The Pueblo Chieftain. Right away I'll be condemned as a "racist", even though "Latinos" are of the same European racial stock that I am.

The bizarre thing is that being a native Southwesterner, I grew up with many "Latino" people, and I love many aspects of their language, history, and culture -- which for many years has featured strong, proud families. Cut to the chase -- I WELCOME "Latino" people when they come here LEGALLY! I don't welcome them when they come barging in here ILLEGALLY, looking for welfare handouts! I don't know how to make it any more simple or truthful than that! You praise Barack Obama's efforts to stop illegals, but his failed policies were too often characterized by "catch-and-release" practices which just brought the same criminals right back in here -- hence, the murder of Kate Steinle, by an illegal who had been 'caught-and-released' numerous times! Where did this murdering creep go? Right back to the good old USA, that's where -- time and again.... How many thousands more such creeps are among us right now...?

Now, thanks to radical Democrat opportunism at the prospect of being able to encourage even more illegal hordes to pour in here, eventually becoming rank-and-file loyal Democrat Party members, PLUS Donald Trump's unfortunate lack of "charm school" diplomacy, we've got what amounts to a political FIRESTORM. I tell you in truth that not even in the worst days of the Vietnam War did I see anything as deeply split, filled with hatred, and mentally diseased as this whole thing has become, and I have no idea where it goes next.

My gut-feel is that this is going to end badly, Te. Much worse than anybody imagines right now. And it's so far gone now that there's probably nothing we can do to stop it -- especially if you're right and Mexico won't try to help us with this situation. My earnest, heartfelt advice to you, regardless of where you live, is keep a close eye on your surroundings when you go out in public. We are in 'uncharted waters' and there are monsters down below. I'm NOT kidding.

 

Fantasy scenario.

People despise the TSA & the TSA knows it.

They're not going to risk being despised even more.

 

I tried searching using the names of the sources you cited and the terms "undocumented latino crime" and came up with next to nothing remotely similar to what you are saying. I managed to find the Colorado Springs police blotter and went through a couple of pages without noticing anything that struck me as being excessive. TBH is was not even as dramatic as what I have observed here locally.

Yes, there is a criminal element and it exists all across our nation. However the degree of crime might just be hyped by the media in order to increase their revenues which does happen, unfortunately. The local FauxNoise stations around here are forever promising some kind of "shocking crime story" that is rarely what they allege it to be which is why I simply ignore them entirely. If I want factual data I examine the crime statistics instead.

I live in a small city that is so diverse that whites are a minority. I have no fear whatsoever when walking around at night on my own unarmed. Where I live is probably about as safe a place to live as anywhere else in the nation and yet according to those who support the BLOTUS it should be riddled with crime. There are moderate income condos just around the corner from my house and an entire complex of moderate income apartments just a block away and there is no crime there. Both places are actually cleaner and better maintained than some of the other apartment complexes.

I am in contact with our local PD through volunteer work that I perform and so I know the cops and the EMT's. They do occasionally have to deal with serious criminals but they are usually just "passing through" as opposed to being resident.

Recently I had to take someone to obtain their passport and it was in another city that is considerably more run down than where I reside. We were standing outside in the queue because it was full inside. I was probably only one of about 3 or 4 white people there at that time of the day and at no time did I feel in the least concerned. I was just in a crowd of people who had to tolerate the extra long wait times because of the government shutdown. We were all equally unimpressed by being inconvenienced but no one was making it personal.

So no, I am just not experiencing whatever it is that you are feeling. People are just people and we are all dealing with life and getting on with our lives. The border and immigration are topics of conversation but not division. We are not stockpiling anything other than what we need because things are about as normal as can be given the circumstances.

Granted I am someone who refuses to live in fear, especially fear that is hyped by politicians. I derided Bush jr and his cabal when they were fearmongering about terrorists just I am deriding the BLOTUS for his fearmongering about immigrants. FDR was right and the statistics support my position.

The problems we will face as a nation will be entirely self inflicted by the BLOTUS. He is the only threat that I am concerned about because of the ACTUAL HARM he is currently causing to the innocent families of 800,000 hardworking Americans.

That blame belongs entirely on him and no one else.

 

This is interesting, but not very surprising. I, too, have been a trained EMT, long ago, in New Mexico, and I've done some pretty gritty work in a volunteer capacity, also as a volunteer fireman. Is there anything worse than working an emergency situation with fatalities at 3AM when it's snowing hard and maybe ten degrees above zero? You have my respect, if not my agreement in all things, Te.

I suppose I could go and find the headlines, with all the 'domestic disturbances', the stabbings, the shootings, the carjackings, the murders, and the kidnappings, and then we could argue about how 'significant' it all was, but I'll spare us both that experience. I know what I see, hear, and browse every day here at 6,000 feet above sea level, and I truly wish it were otherwise.

Right now, somehow, we've got to focus on getting the government back open... not that I'm being 'deprived' of any 'services' or anything, but in order to resolve, once and for all, the whole issue of illegal aliens just barging into the United States by the millions. And, yes, both Republicans and Democrats are to blame, and since no other political party gets to DO anything, we all go on dancing this 'immigration minuet'... and the 'music' never stops. Republican 'big-wigs' want cheap labor and low/no taxes, and radical Democrats want a ever-larger voter base that is amenable to 'Socialism-lite', and a prelude to the Real Thing.

How to actually end the 'shutdown'...?

How can we know that when all Democrats keep saying is, "Re-open the government, and then we'll, uh, talk...." Talk? Talk about WHAT? Talk some MORE? We've been TALKING about this since I was in high school (back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth!) Reagan and Democrats talked and talked in the 1980's, and actually achieved an agreement -- but it turns out that the Democrats lied, did nothing they agreed to do, and obviously, we've got an even worse situation today.

So, what's all my bullshit add up to, Te? Nothing. The Democrat strategy is simply to destroy Trump by leveraging the "Russia probe" thing, and take away his power to do anything, by converting nervous RINO-Republicans into adopting their political positions -- whatever those may eventually be revealed to be. Without enough votes in either House or Senate, Trump is left with nothing but the equivalent of a "bombed-out building", and he might as well resign.

If nothing else, I'm a realist. I see what's coming, and I'm fortunate that I'll be dead before the worst of it comes to a full, metastasized stage. Both Republicans and Democrats are responsible for killing the United States of America... nothing is likely to stop it now....

Trump will end up being declared as 'an unindicted co-conspirator', and although that won't automatically get him thrown out of office, it will damage him to the point where he cannot get ANYTHING beneficial done -- domestically, or internationally.

If you're under about 40 years old, I suggest that you become fluent in Spanish. We'll have bilingual, interactive robots doing most things in about another 10 years, but there's a good chance you'll have a 'Latino' boss, and he/she will be easier to work with if you speak his/her native language.... Have a nice weekend.

. "I can also converse in Mandarin, and Russian...."

 

The only real quibble I have with the above is your constant blaming the Dems for everything that the BLOTUS is inflicting on himself.

The BLOTUS is an unindicted criminal IMO and I am far from being alone in that respect. Given all of the HARD EVIDENCE that we have to date he is definitely GUILTY of conspiring to commit campaign finance violations. That one is a no-brainer but I doubt it is enough to have him impeached and convicted in the Senate. For that there will need to be money laundering or something of that severity and it will be BIPARTISAN.

Our nation does NOT have to go where you are predicting, Cy. Yes, automation is the next thing on the horizon but we already have it to a large degree in our existing factories. Hard to see it making a significant difference to a segment that is already sparsely populated with employees. It will probably have a greater impact overseas IMO.

People can choose to do things that appear irrational but actually aren't. For instance let us assume that Starbucks decides to fully automate and you just need to use your phone to order your Creme de Menthe Hazelnut Latte and it will be all waiting and paid for when you drive by and the robot will put it in your cupholder in your car for you. Alternatively you could park at another coffee shoppe with a student barista who will give you a big smile and put in an extra dollop of Hazelnut while you admire her cute ass and give her an extra large tip because it puts a smile on both your faces in the morning. You can't automate that personal service and that smile.

Things are going to change and those who fail to adapt will fall by the wayside just as all of those buggy whip makers and 8 track cassettes did in the past. What replaces them will need to be effective because there were countless things that were going to be "huge" and yet failed to become commonplace like flying cars whereas microwaves are now now an essential appliance in every kitchen.

The BLOTUS and the GOP are heading for history's trash bin of failures because We the People are resilient enough to adapt and do what is right. We did it when we threw off the yoke of the British Monarchy and again when we fought for the freedom of the slaves. We took down the Robber Barons and survived the Great Depression and WW2. When the feces hits the oscilating blades we drop our petty differences and pull together for good of all. It has happened before and it will happen again.

Don't let the 6k altitude lack of oxygen make you lightheaded.

SCNR

Have a good weekend too.

 

You have noticed the first small trickle of Dems fleeing Nancy's playpen?

 

There is no hard evidence lots of supposition and guesses but nothing I've seen yet amounts to evidence of a crime.

 

So according to you the only way to end this is for Trump so surrender. Why Shouldn't Nancy surrender or at least meet Trump half way? And there is no way in hell the current Dem leadership will ever resolve their differences with Trump as long as Trump holds no bargaining chips. This ends anytime Pelosisaurus and Schumer shmuck are willing to meet Trump half way. Until then nothing is going to happen nor should it.

 

I gotta admit, I like your style, Te. Quips like the 'feces hitting the oscillating blades' is just exactly like something I might have written forty years ago, before I pretty much lost my sense of humor. And, yes, I can readily agree that it's much nicer to look at some sweet, young barista's real, live, living ass and have pleasant chat with her than ordering my double-shot caramel Macchiato from a robot, even though it might be fun to speak German to it.... (BTW, drink one of those things and you can ride your bike at high speed for an hour before your blood sugar level crashes!)

We did survive both the real Great Depression, and both World Wars -- but we didn't do it by fighting each other! Too bad that Trump didn't make a sensible "Wall" request in his original Executive Order right after taking office. Too bad that he had to antagonize so many of the powerful people he would have to be dealing with. Too bad that he used "Twitter" for anything, EVER! Too bad that ANYBODY even remotely associated with his campaign, however long ago, even spoke so much as one word to any Russian at all! Too bad he didn't have the wisdom to put off indefinitely the whole idea of building a hotel in Russia once he had made the decision to run for the presidency!

Too bad that the Democrat Party leadership couldn't find a MUCH better candidate than Hillary Clinton. Too bad that Democrats didn't pounce on the 'DACA/immigration deal' that Trump offered last year. Too bad that Democrats bought the "Steele Dossier". Too bad that Democrats have painted themselves in the corner with America-hating, wanna-be Socialists like Ocasio-Cortez, "Dizzy Lizzy" Warren, Kamalah Harris, Cory Booker, et al. Too bad that Democrats have produced no viable, beneficial theory for governance beyond developing ways to 'crowbar' Donald Trump into paralysis.

In short, "too bad" for the entire United States -- beginning with the stinking, damned Vietnam War, and with only a few breaks in-between, continuing the decay, distrust, lies, and hatred almost ever since.... As my dear, old Mother used to say, Te, "Just do the best you can, my darling -- it won't be TOO good...." And keep a close eye on your surroundings. It's likely to get a bit, uh, turbulent for the next two years.

 

Sorry to hear about you losing your sense of humor? Have you tried looking for it in the last place that you can recall having it?

Speaking of the sayings of our mothers, Cy, mine was fond of saying, "Cheer up, things could be worse." So I cheered up and sure enough things did get worse! Much, much worse!

Reading through your lamentations as to what has gotten worse reminded me of one of Winston Churchill's sayings.

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

You just listed "everything else" so having pretty much exhausted that list of "everything else" isn't it about time We the People tried to do the "right thing" instead?

I am neither an optimist nor a pessimist. Instead I am a realist. Things are going downhill under the BLOTUS regime but we are very close to hitting rock bottom IMO.

The BLOTUS just caved on this government shutdown thanks to the ATC Union calling out the danger to We the People that he was causing them.

The next two years will be rough but it is only two years. There are a whole bunch of GOP Congress members who have only now realized just how much damage can occur when moronic hardline partisan positions are allowed to happen. They are far less likely to march in lockstep in the future IMO.

Yes, this turnaround is going to take longer than two years but the message has now made it through some of the thick skulls of those who always put party before the best interests of the nation.

Cleaning up the current mess in the Whitehouse will probably take longer than two years but our leaders are now aware that they were heading down the wrong path. Now it is up to us to keep reminding them that we will not tolerate any deviation from doing what is right for We the People.

All the best and good luck with your search.

DT