If God is not real...

Ok, I've heard this for the last time and can no longer take it.

So how about the facts sir? In Sub-Saharan Africa they own about 10% of the world's population but have about 70% of the reported AIDS cases. However, in northern Africa, this is not the case. Why? It is obvious that the problem is a cultural one in terms of how they interact sexually. North Africa is heavily influenced by Islam, therefore, they have a different view on sex than those who are not Muslim as they ignore Christian teachings on sex. Do you really think that Islam is passing out a bunch of rubbers in Africa? If so, I would like to see the link. As for Christians in South Africa, if they are going to ignore the church's teachings on sex by all means ignore the rubber rules as well.

Additionally, in the US the gay population accounts for about 5% of the population, but accounts for over half the AIDS cases in the US. Why? We can therefore blame the Christian faith for the AIDS epidemic in South Africa just as much as we can blame the gay lifestyle in the US that Christianity speaks out against for the epidimic in that country as well.

Of coure, to blame gays for the AIDS epidemic in the US would be bigoted and homophobic, but to blame Christians for the AIDS epidemic in Africa would be hip and politically correct. Now excuse me while I find a garbage can to puke in.

 

Fundie woman at work told me that my granny (a life long salvationist who dedicated her life to helping others) was in hell because she was not born again... this was the day after her funeral.

 

He didn't blame Christian faith for the AIDS epidemic. He said they're making things worse by discouraging condom use.

 

They think they get a pass because it's their belief and you can't say anything negative about their beliefs....... they can say things about yours though.

 

No, he is blaming the Christian faith for preaching against rubbers.

The kicker here is that the Christian faith rails against promiscuity, which is what fuels the epidemic. So the cure is being blamed for the disease.

 

Excellent analysis. People are blaming the church for the AIDS epidemic, when those who spread AIDS are obviously not following the church's teaching anyway, and so would ignore christian admonitions against condoms just as much as those against promiscuity. Check and mate.

 

I'm going to hell because I support gay rights and not corralled (through fear) to subscribe to any particular religion. So I'm told anyway. Lol

 

The same reason many religious people tend to mock atheists. Because it's human nature to hate anyone who is different.

 

I don't think God has as many enemies as you think. The existance or non-existance of God isn't proveable by any logical or scientific method that I know about. The majority of the worlds people believe in a God or gods in some sense of that term. A significant minority don't. This doesn't mean that most nonbelievers hold anything against God they just don't believe He exists. I'm inclined to believe that a God does exist. However I accept that if God doesn't exist he still won't exist just because I believe he (probably) does. I think most nonbelievers would acknowledge that if God exists he would still exist whether they believe in him or not.

 

So... atheists are the least trusted people in America. Nearly have of Americans said they wouldn't trust someone based on the single criteria of belief in a deity.

And you think atheists are the one with the problem?

 

I don't think he has any enemies.

His believers surely do, though.

 

Your conclusion is a generalization. Does the use of condoms help to prevent the spread of aids ?

 

You tell me?

The OP says Christians, based on a single criteria are not to be trusted.

Yet when this is done to atheists? Now its wrong?

The first was rational and intellectual, the second - persecution?

Do you see why I think atheists have double standards?

 

The OP is asking why god has so many enemies. Did you wander into the wrong thread?

 

The use of condoms helps to prevent the spread of aids. Preaching against rubbers then helps aids to spread.

They should stick to preaching against sex, but say that if one does have sex (something the church can not control) a condom should be used.

Only extremist churches preach against rubbers. Do not try and paint the whole Christian faith as stupid enough to not be able to distinquish the difference between preaching against rubbers and preaching against sex.

 

In part it is because of the poor examples of some that put themselves under the banner of Christianity. Another reason is that those outside of Christianity has no idea what God is doing and is using their own limited understanding and reasoning , which leads them to believe God is unjust. And lastly, people hate God because He is totally and completely good while human beings' nature has been contaminated with evil.

 

This is intellectually dishonest. You can't excuse the bad behavior of other Christians by saying "Well, they're not true Christians, we don't behave like that." You can draw a distinction between "some" and "all," and I agree with what I think you're saying, but it's just not honest to imply any Christian doing something you don't like isn't really Christian.

THis is a huge, offensive assumption to anyone not under whatever your criteria for being "Christian" are. It also implies you have direct insight into the thought process of a supreme being.

If you believe you've solved the traditional problem of good and evil, please let us in on it. You'd be the first one to definitively answer a logic problem that's been around since about 200 BCE.

Can you give an example of average people who hate god, other than the obvious nutbags of the Atheist flavor that are in the same category as the Westboro Baptist Church?

 

Every. Single. Day.

Many Christians genuinely believe that without God, there is no foundation for morality.

It's complete hogwash, as there are many compelling reasons to follow The Golden Rule, and you don't have to believe in God to understand ethics and behave ethically; but God = Ethics is still a strongly held belief by a lot of folks.

 

So in your view, Catholics, Protestants, and Lutherans are all extremist churches?

 

Whether you agree with me or not that is what it is. Jesus told His disciples about it throughout the New Testament but our critics have been blind to it.

Well, yes we do......at least those who are as the scripture says are being lead by the Spirit. We have God Himself living in us. However this may seem to you it is what it is.

Evil is anything that is against God's Nature and intent for man. It is why it says in the Bible that this world is evil.

Anyone that rejects God, His word and those who represents Him. It does not mean that people consciously and willfully reject God but they do so without realizing it.

 

For starters, if there are more cases of AIDS in Southern Africa, you're more likely to pick up AIDS there than in a place in which there is less AIDS but for the sake of argument, let's say that the spread of AIDS in Southern Africa is completely cultural. If it is completely cultural, then it is even more important to influence that culture to stop the spreading of AIDS.

I don't blame the Church for not handing out condoms in Africa, if you don't like them, fine, don't distribute them, I blame the Church for banning condoms, something that Islam has not done (it's been done in minor areas, but them, I would blame).

It's not like two people are about to have sex, one produces a condom and then go "oh, right, the pope banned these", they don't have them when it becomes relevant.
The teachings about sex are ignored in the heat of the moment by lust or love or whatever you might call it, and that has proven hard to change. The condom ban would have to be ignored in a store, buying condoms, it's not just you having to ignore it, it would have to be the shopkeeper, maybe your parents, your friends. That is really influenced by things like papal words.

As I have stated before, I don't blame any common Christian for this. I blame those who issue these claims using the backing of the entire Christian population to convey their message. Just as I don't blame the gay lifestyle, I only blame those who commit criminal transmission of HIV.

I blame every single gay who commit criminal transmission of HIV, just as I blame every single heterosexual who commit criminal transmission of HIV. I blame them regardless of sexuality.

I specifically stated that I do not have a problem with most Christians or Christians in general, just with some, the few that for instance say things like that discussed above.

Edit: But of course, AIDS was non the topic of the thread, feel free to direct me to a thread where this discussion fits.

 

Do you have any example of any atheist that believed in the concept of right and wrong long before Judo-Christian belief? I don’t think so because there was no atheist before Judo-Christian; everyone else was basically pagans. Whether an atheist realizes it or not their belief of morality has been influenced by Christianity. An atheist was not born believing what he or she believed…..they became an atheist later on in life after they had acquired their moral belief as a result of the effect that Christians had on the world.

 

Protestant and Lutheran Churches do not generally preach against condoms.

There may be a few on the fringe in the Lutheran Church (which I know well) .. and most Protestant denominations in general do not preach against Condoms.

Evangelical and Pentacostal are extremist.

I do not know the Catholic position.

Orthadox does not preach against condoms in general.

 

No it doesn't.

I think so. Is it because you can't read?

 

Confucius is an example, dates long before Jesus, and has functioned as a moral system for over 2000 years.

Pagans are not athiests.

There were plenty of other moral systems developed prior to Christianity and Christianity borrowed from these.

I guess one of the most famous examples is "The Golden Rule" - Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

Confucius taught this rule but it predates him (500 BC). "What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others." and "Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself."


The rule is found in Hinduism Brhaspati - prior to 600 BC. "One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self"

Buddhism - 550 BC "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful"

Versions of this rule are found in Egypt as far back as 2000 BC. The Egyptian concept of "maat" is moral code predating Christianity by at least 3000 years.

Many of the sayings of Christ can be found to exist elsewhere prior to Christ.

This makes sence given that he Christ dissappeared for so many years from a young man to adult. Scripture is silent about where he went but perhaps he travelled to these other places and learned from these other cultures.