In regards to Mar-A-Lago Price tag and Trumps fraud "trial".

I assure you — as someone that works with real estate investors — very few of them lie in the way the trump team did in the financial disclosures.

Should there be zero penalties for lying on a loan application?

 

That’s not what the Judge valued it at — it’s what the tax accessor valued it.

 

Red: False. It was not a market value, it was a tax evaluation. And Mar-A-Lago has been making 60 million/year. If the assessor had done a market value that alone would exceed the price that the assessor actually gave.

Additionally the bank had it appraised also. Their evaluation was lower than Trumps evaluation, yet still worth FAR more than 18-27 million. To the tune of being able to give out a lone over $100 million. Which means their evaluation of the property was over $100 million. Going by Engoron's "logic" then the banks also over evaluated the market price of Mar-A-Lago and therefore committed fraud.

 

You can tell the people who have never purchased a home or taken out a mortgage based on their posts in this thread.

For those who have never purchased a home, here's how it works. Before a bank gives you a loan they do a few things, including looking at comparable property values to determine if the value of the loan (closing price less the down payment). That's primary thing they care about. If you don't make your payments they want to be able to get the value of their loan back. This is true if you're buying the house or if you're taking out an additional mortgage on a property.

Tax assessments are completely different and vary dramatically by municipality. Generally speaking, for residential homes the annual tax payments are based on a percentage of the tax assessment value. Market values fluctuate wildly, tax assessments usually don't get reassessed for many years (a decade or so). And they're generally not the market value even when they are freshly assessed. It's just a mechanism determine a fair tax bill compared to other properties in the municipality.

Property taxes for business taxes are different, they look at things like business income, employees, etc.

When you go to a bank for a mortgage you have to state what you believe the market value is. It's an estimate. There's no such thing as a "true" market value. Even if you just bought a property a minute ago it doesn't mean you can't flip it for more or less. It's always an opinion and an estimate. And when you want to borrow money from a bank it's generally in your best interest to give a high estimate. The bank will do their own assessment anyway and your number is largely to see if you're in the same ballpark.

The tax assessor who did the assessment for MAL cited by the judge said his value had nothing to do with the market value of the property and cannot be used to make that determination. But the judge did it anyway.

Those saying the judge didn't use the tax assessment of MAL as evidence of "fraud" in ruling are being dishonest.

From CNN:

The tax assessor did not appraise "the market value" and explicitly stated he did not do so. The judge didn't care because he has a terminal case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

I assure you, someone who who works with real estate investors knows they're tax "assessors" and not tax accessors [sic]. They would also know tax assessors do not provide market values. Yet, the judge cited the tax assessment as evidence that Trump overvalued the "market value" of MAL by "at least 2300%"

 

Yeh my text to talk has trouble with my Hickanese but if all you have is a spelling error — ok.

And no one said a tax assessment determines market value, with investment properties it is typically a combination of sales comparisons, income capitalization and price per square footage. Seeing that trumps lies would have impacted two of the three and his omitting that it cannot be developed easily would have impacted the third — that’s fraud.

 

No, prinicipally, the case was about the valuation of the NY properties. Using how he valued other properties as a gauge for this case is stupid. Did he defraud them or not, and it seems fraud in this case is about overstating the property. The 350 M penalty literally makes a mockery of the judge's decision: He overvalued it, and we judge the penalty to be 350 million dollars!

Mindboggling. The penalty more or less agrees that it far surpasses the 18 million the judge cited lol.

 

Long-term, this shows that the civil courts cannot actually function as a mediator of disputes in financial institutions. It requires the good sense of understanding those economic realities in the institutions, and to no fault of His/Her Honors, they study law, they don't study economic theory and labor.

What we need then is a arbitration board to hear disputes. Similar to labor unions. If the lawyers can make rules themselves regarding the judicial proceedings, then the business community can self-police itself. Unionizing investment capital and stock will allow those who own stock and capital(and real estate) to be reassured and protected.

Because federal law clearly cannot do this, but it can also negatively impact financial operations.

 

I own a grade II listed building (bar and hotel), listed because of its history being built in 1780. This history devalues the building

 

I presume you have a link to your $60m pre-tax profit?

 

This is a major health hazard:

You have to see the pics of the mold on the ventilation, first link, also multiple reports of the musty smell of the place,
Twitter users react to Trump's filthy Mar-a-Lago vents


Rust, mold, parasites: Trump’s Mar-a-Lago cited for 78 health violations in the last three years

 

The judge did so in his ruling. That's the whole point of this thread.

 

He used that as a metric, the fraud was determined by the lying on financial statements.

trump could have valued MAL at 1 trillion and as long as he didn’t lie about the numbers then that wouldn’t have been an issue.

 

I do not, it was something I had read in passing.

 

Yes, not all history is beneficial to the value of a place. But Mar-a-Lago's history isn't.

 

The primary factor impacting MAL is that trump was trying to value it as developed for residential use, even though he had surrendered rights to develop it for any uses but a club.

He lied about the finances, he lied about the type of property, he lied about square footage, income — basically he is just a liar — one that y’all believe should be given absolute immunity in seemingly everything.

 

That is what's fascinating about Trump loving rightists. They are ready to impeach Ole Joe over loan payments paid to him from his family while he was a private citizen, yet believe mango to be an innocent Saint and is being treated unfairly for all the crimes he's committed.

 

I really wish I could understand it.

A decade ago I could at least understand why republicans felt the way they did about most of their platform but anymore it just seems to be trump is king and anything to “trigger the libz”.

I don’t hold much hope for Americans to pay attention but I sincerely hope that the average voter can at least see that this isn’t normal.

 

And I read that total turnover is around $20M, and so does not take account of expenses, is a very poor return. My other hotel has a turnover of around £400k and I would sell for £1.75M and this hotel can be developed over the open car park (parking lot). In conclusion, the max value of mar largo is $80M if based on similar turnover calculations but would need to be reduced due to the restrictions placed on that property and no doubt has a much higher expenses percentage rate than my hotel which is run on a shoestring

 

Only for Presidential ACTIONS. Your side seems to think that means "seemingly everything". It doesn't.

 

Is it a presidential action to lie on loan documents?

Y’all don’t believe he should be held accountable for ANYTHING

 

You do realize that every single place around Mar-a-Lago is valued at a minimum of 100 million right? To think that Mar-a-Lago is worth less than the properties around it is just silly. Zillow alone will show that. And you act as if those restrictions you talk about can't ever be lifted if it were to be sold. Many investors have said its worth around $300 million.

 

No one is claiming Trump has immunity for this case. Its a strawman argument.

 

You might as well be, y’all are constantly saying he didndo nothing wrong even they they proved in court he lied on the forms and further testimony shows he had his staff reverse engineer valuations he pulled out of his ass.

I feel like I am having a discussion with the far left wing when the BLM riots were going on except instead of just a small portion like it was with the Democrats it’s almost all Republicans.

So answer the question — is lying on a loan application a crime? Yes or no?

 

Its was made clear to this corrupt judge, by an expert witness, who is a long time Palm Beach and Miami real estate lawyer, that this is not an evaluation of Mar a lagos worth. Its a tax privilege that only 9 properties in Palm beach even qualify for. It allows the owner to pay taxes on the estates revenue instead of its value. Being a historical landmark with a revenue of 25 million per year.

Which actually increases the value to any purchaser because instead of paying 18-20 million a year in taxes, they only pay 800K.
And your deed restriction can be removed at any time by the owner and the blessing of the tax revenue office as Palm Beach would love to have 20 million a year in additional tax revenue. What idiot would turn that down?

Just the fact that this corrupt judge decided on his own to determine what the value of the property is, ignoring the claims of an expert witness, the contract with Palm beach, and the banks assessment, to claim its worth 18 million to fine a defendant, makes his ruling in this case appealable.