Is the 'right to bear arms' unlimited?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by chris155au, Nov 10, 2020.

  1. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a reference ?

    I have one.
    According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state. The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws. Most of those out of state guns came from Indiana, which is next to Illinois. Second place goes to Mississippi and third place goes to Wisconsin.
    Where Do All The Illegal Guns In Chicago Come From ...
    www.chicagocriminallawyerblog.net/where-do-all-illegal-guns-from-chicago/
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  2. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You’re sad.
     
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing will change the fact you disproved you own claim, Wayne.
     
  4. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Only in your deluded POV.
     
  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your post only confirms that if someone is determined to get a gun then they'll find a way to get one since there are already hundreds of millions in circulation.

    Meanwhile, you keep evading the fact that if stricter gun laws were responsible for lower homicide rates, the US would have the highest homicide rate in the world but it doesn't.

    Russia, Brazil, South Africa and Mexico are just a few of the 50+ countries(1) that have far stricter gun laws yet these 50+ countries also have far higher homicide rates than the US.

    If stricter gun laws were responsible for lower homicide rates, then they would work everywhere, not just in the few cherry picked, older, White, "developed" countries frequently listed by hoplophobes(2)



    (1) "Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) - Country Ranking"
    https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings


    (2) "The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries"
    https://mises.org/wire/mistake-only-...oped-countries
     
  6. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Of course I do.

    https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/firearms-trace-data-2018

    On 2018, the state that supplied the largest amount of guns to criminals in Illinois was Illinois, with 5337. Indiana was next at 1548. In 2018 2/3 of the guns traced to criminals in California originated in California.
     
  7. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Additionally, over 50% of those guns originate in Illinois for 2018.
     
  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the truth matters to him?
     
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  9. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please. You can't read the constitution, can't understand SCOTUS decisions. It really is right there in the words for those bright enough to read and understand them.

    Take your "concession" and puke on it.
     
  10. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Have you retracted your claim on guns coming into Illinois? It's still showing?
     
  11. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A language error.
    Guns do not come into Illinois.
    Guns are fired into Illinois.
    The gun owner comes into Illinois.

    Why you people focus on sex is beyond me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  12. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Deflection score: 5.4, 5.6, 5.3, 5.9 from the East German judge.
     
  13. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    First, only the majority opinion authored by Scalia had standing in the Court’s decision. His dicta did not. Know which is which.
    Second, in early American history, there was no weapon in the Government armories that could not be privately owned, not canon, and certainly not the most powerful weapon in the Government inventory... the armed ships of the time, and some private individuals did own large, powerful, armed vessels to safeguard from attack in engaging in commerce. BTW, you still can.
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The limit imposed on rights is when one right is used to suppress the rights and to harm another. That is one of the fundamental underpinnings of collective law.
     
  15. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would you use the same argument for marijuana or other drugs? If it's harder to obtain, would they find another way?
     
  16. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Who's your state-appointed commanding officer? Have you been trained according to the discipline prescribed by Congress?
     
  17. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have. Currently there isn't any required training for the unorganized militia. I, among many others, however, would love to see the militia mustered. Those of the 60 million men in the unorganized militia who show up with the proper rifle can shoot Uncle Sam's ammo all weekend; those like you who show up without can dig fighting positions, serve on KP and burn sh!t all weekend. Those like me will serve as cadre.
     
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  18. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Unorganized does not equal well-regulated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  19. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    “Well-regulated” modifies “militia”. The Constitution grants powers to government. The Bill of Rights restricts the powers of government.

    The Constitution granted Congress the sole power to organize, arm and discipline the militia in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16. Congress, using this authority, has passed five Militia Acts since ratification of the Bill of Rights to regulate the militia. Current law on militia regulation is 10 USC 246.
    U.S. Code § 246.Militia: composition and classes
    (a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
    (b)The classes of the militia are—
    (1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
    (2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

    If you don't like the way that Congress defines "well-regulated", take it up with your Congresscritters and/or run for office yourself. Only Congress's opinion on what is "well-regulated" matters.
     
  20. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    given the inexplicable gibberish to which I was responding it's the best you're gonna get and far better than you deserve.
     
  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The "well-regulated" militia is what the law says it is.
     
  22. Vailhundt

    Vailhundt Banned

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    No. It is limited. And limiting it is Constitutional. This was all decided long ago.
     
  23. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Specifically, which limits on the right of the people to keep and bear arms are constitutional?
    Please cite the decision and the text to that effect.
    Then you should have no issue meeting the challenge given to you, above.
     
  24. Vailhundt

    Vailhundt Banned

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    the ones ruled by the SCOTUS to be constitutional, so far. Didn't even break a sweat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  25. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Ah.
    You have no clue as to which limits were held by the court to not violate the constitution, or which cases ruled as such
    Thus, your claim is supported only by your ignorance of the subject.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020

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