Is this the Trump Doctrine?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Striped Horse, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Israel didn't even exist in 1947, so how could it have faced annihilation?

    The fact is, Israel was created by the massive displacement of the majority of Arabs and Christians who already occupied those lands. And this was done with the backing of western powers, especially the US.

    Yes, yes... poor Israel. Always a victim, never a perpetrator.
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    We agree about America first. We only disagree about Israel being the bad guys.
     
  3. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    You have a very peculiar version of "America first", one that involves committing massive amounts of our resources and energy to the special interests of a foreign power.
     
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  4. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    Do you expect anyone to take that lie seriously?
     
  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's a perfectly valid quote. Netanyahu said it to the traitorous Jonathan Pollard, another one of your heroes.

    Don't expect your undying loyalty to Israel to be appreciated.
    In fact. Israelis regard their gullible American supporters as suckers.


    "WHAT DO ISRAELIS THINK ABOUT AMERICANS? START WITH DISDAIN"
    http://forward.com/news/israel/216074/what-do-israelis-think-about-americans-start-with/

    EXCERPTS " Though Israel is a famously fractious society, Israelis tend to agree on one thing: Their strongest supporters are an inherently dupable people.

    “Most Israelis think Americans are pro-Israel and we can sell them anything, especially mud from the Dead Sea,” said David Lifshitz, the lead writer for the Israeli comedy show “Eretz Nehederet,” or “Wonderful Land.”

    “Or — just regular mud with a ‘Dead Sea’ sticker on it.

    “I know what America is,” Netanyahu, told the settlers. “America is a thing that can be easily moved, moved in the right direction. CONTINUED
     
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  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Massive? Give me a break. Please go take your anti semitism elsewhere.
     
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would you call Trillions of dollars(1) thousands of American lives for AIPAC's war on Iraq & the stationing of US Troops on Israeli soil to die for Israel.(2)

    Trump openly stated that the only reason US Troops were in the Mid East was "for Israel"(3).

    There is nothing "anti Semitic" about loyal Americans opposing relentless Zionist parasitism & it is disloyal to aid & abet that thankless parasitism when there are so many unmet needs in America.


    (1) "The Real Cost of US Support for Israel: $3 Trillion"
    http://www.ilaam.net/Intl/RealCostOfIsrael.html

    EXCERPT "While it is commonly reported that Israel officially receives some $3 billion every year in the form of economic aid from the U.S. government, this figure is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many billions of dollars more in hidden costs and economic losses lurking beneath the surface. A recently published economic analysis has concluded that U.S. support for the state of Israel has cost American taxpayers nearly $3 trillion ($3 million millions) in 2002 dollars."CONTINUED


    (2) "U.S. Soldiers Sacrificial Lambs"
    http://americanfreepress.net/u-s-soldiers-sacrificial-lambs/

    EXCERPT "During the recent bilateral military exercises, Air Force Lt. Gen. Richard Clark enthused that American soldiers are “prepared to die for the Jewish state” and also added that they would “probably” be under the command of Israeli Air Force Gen. Zvika Haimovitch, who would decide on the involvement of U.S. personnel. Haimovitch commented, “I am sure . . . we will find U.S. troops on the ground . . . to defend the state of Israel.”CONTINUED


    (3) "TRUMP: U.S. TROOPS WILL REMAIN IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOR ISRAEL"
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Trump-US-troops-will-remain-in-the-Middle-East-for-Israel-572997

    EXCERPT "We have reached a point where we don't have to stay in the Middle East. One reason to stay is Israel," U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday evening with an exclusive interview with the Washington Post."CONTINUED


     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    1948 actually. As the anti-Semite will tell you, Israel starts the wars,
    even when it doesn't. The tiny settlements of the Jews were attacked
    by seven Arab nations. Many Western nations in this and the 1967
    war refused to support Israel - including America.
    America's involvement came after Russian involvement in the Six
    Day War.
    Israel called upon Arabs not to regard the calls from the Mufti and
    the Arab nations to leave their villages and farms. There's a good
    website on this, detailing village by village the reasons for leaving.
    One interesting case was journalists claiming that Jews had raped
    Muslim women. The fake news was "justified" as it called attention
    to this war. Result was the mass exodus of Arabs. Those Arabs
    who did stay in the new state of Israel are still there today, and
    enjoy a high standard of living, employment and legal recognition.

    Compare that to the 500,000 Jews driven out of Arab lands. There
    was no demand, no threat, from the Jewish Rabbis against Jews
    if they did not obey. You most likely have never even heard of this
    genocidal exodus.
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    America has a special interest in Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, the Philippine,
    Australia, Germany, France, England and Israel. It even gives huge amount
    of aid to Egypt and Pakistan - billions of which it could more readily spend on
    its own roads, schools and hospitals.
     
  10. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    There's a long planned WWIII program by Russia. Should trouble start,
    in say the NATO borders, it will be enacted. Doesn't mean that Russia
    wants a nuclear war - it has to simply be prepared for one.

    Same as Israel in the Six Day War when Arabs violated international
    conventions by blocking the Staits of Tiran, removed UN Peacekeepers,
    moved troops into the Sinai, flew over Israeli airspace, moved troops
    onto the Golan, readied long range bombers to hit Tel Aviv and cheered
    millions of their civilians by threatening to cut the throats of the Jews.

    I am quite convinced Egypt and Syria intended to carry all this out. So
    too was tiny Israel. Hence the digging of mass graves in their public
    parks and reserves. I am glad Israel was prepared for that war - they
    knew it was coming.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    You may be convinced that Egypt and Syria intended to carry all this out but those directly involved admit that Israel initiated hostilities as a long planned land grab:


    "A 50-Year Occupation: Israel’s Six-Day War Started With a Lie"
    https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/a-50-year-occupation-israels-six-day-war-started-with-a-lie/

    EXCERPT "A year earlier, Mordechai Bentov, a member of the wartime government and one of 37 people to sign Israel’s Declaration of Independence, had made a similar admission. “This whole story about the threat of extermination was totally contrived, and then elaborated upon, a posteriori, to justify the annexation of new Arab territories,” he said in April 1971."CONTINUED


    "Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival"
    https://mondoweiss.net/2017/06/provoked-fighting-survival/

    EXCERPT "Finkelstein emphasizes that no genuine academic today, whatever their political orientation, endorses the Mainstream Narrative. He starts by identifying what he has called the “Two Biggest Lies.”

    * The truth is that Nasser and the other Arab leaders had absolutely no intention of invading Israel in June 1967.

    * And Israel’s existence was never in the slightest doubt, as both Israeli and American leaders knew that Israel could easily win any conflict, even against a coalition of Arab states."CONTINUED


    Begin's Admission in 1982 That Israel Started Three of Its Wars”
    http://www.washingtonreport.me/1994-july-august/middle-east-history-begin-s-admission-in-1982-that-israel-started-three-of-its-wars.html

    EXCERPT "In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."CONTINUED
     
  12. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    Don't believe it. Talk to almost any Arab today and he will tell you
    that the "Arab Street" and most of their leaders want Israel Gone.
    I think Nasser said he would drench the sand with Jewish blood.

    The arguments are disingenuous - I think Nasser didn't really want
    war to start with, but once momentum began he was locked into
    a position of beginning it. Only Israel preempted him.
    Troops in the Sinai of itself is bad enough - but bombers, fighter
    planes, calling Syria, Jordan, Iraq etc to the coming battle, blocking
    Israel's ports, threats to kill Jews, bringing in the Russians etc. are
    enough reason for reasonable people to take Arab threats at face
    value - particularly when your job is the security, safety and interests
    of your country.

    I believe the real instigator of all this was Russian claims about
    Israel massing for an attack on the Golan. Israel offered to take the
    Soviet Ambassador up to the Golan to see, but he declined.

    And Israel gave back the Sinai, gave back Egyptian land West of
    the Suez and withdrew from all Syria save for the strategic Golan.
    Had Israel wanted to it could have occupied all of Jordan, Syria
    and most of Egypt.
     
  13. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member

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    Ever been to a Middle East country, or just a stop over at an airport?
    There on sale you can find two interesting books:
    The Protocols of Zion
    Mein Kampf

    It seems to me that the two things about Western "Christian"
    civilization that Arabs admire is Nazism and antisemitism.
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:

    I think that you'll find that quite a few Israeli Jews express a similar sentiment:

    “Nearly half of Israeli Jews believe in ethnic cleansing, survey finds”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/almost-half-of-israeli-jews-want-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html

    EXCERPT “Almost half of Jewish Israelis believe Arabs should be "expelled or transferred" from Israel, a survey has found.

    A study carried out by the Pew Research Centre found that around one in five adults questioned “strongly agreed” with the controversial statement, which amounts to ethnic cleansing under some definitions. ”.CONTINUED


    Re:
    Given the difficulties the Israelis have occupying most of Palestine, trying to occupy Jordan, Syria & most of Egypt would have been impossible. Don't you agree?
     
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Discussing the policies and crimes of the Israeli government is not anti-Semitism.
     
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  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    They are when they are not true.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Hyperbole.
     
  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've supported every one of my assertions with credible sources which you chose to omit:

    Here, I'll refresh your memory:

    (1) "The Real Cost of US Support for Israel: $3 Trillion"
    http://www.ilaam.net/Intl/RealCostOfIsrael.html

    EXCERPT "While it is commonly reported that Israel officially receives some $3 billion every year in the form of economic aid from the U.S. government, this figure is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many billions of dollars more in hidden costs and economic losses lurking beneath the surface. A recently published economic analysis has concluded that U.S. support for the state of Israel has cost American taxpayers nearly $3 trillion ($3 million millions) in 2002 dollars."CONTINUED


    (2) "U.S. Soldiers Sacrificial Lambs"
    http://americanfreepress.net/u-s-soldiers-sacrificial-lambs/

    EXCERPT "During the recent bilateral military exercises, Air Force Lt. Gen. Richard Clark enthused that American soldiers are “prepared to die for the Jewish state” and also added that they would “probably” be under the command of Israeli Air Force Gen. Zvika Haimovitch, who would decide on the involvement of U.S. personnel. Haimovitch commented, “I am sure . . . we will find U.S. troops on the ground . . . to defend the state of Israel.”CONTINUED


    (3) "TRUMP: U.S. TROOPS WILL REMAIN IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOR ISRAEL"
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Trump-US-troops-will-remain-in-the-Middle-East-for-Israel-572997

    EXCERPT "We have reached a point where we don't have to stay in the Middle East. One reason to stay is Israel," U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday evening with an exclusive interview with the Washington Post."CONTINUED
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Good for you. I still consider it hyperbole. Copying opinions from a website, especially a blog blog, simply doesn't sway me. Hyperbole. Sorry.
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm just curious as to what you feel is "hyperbolic" as what I've posted are facts, not opinions.
    I try to form my beliefs based on available & verifiable facts and don't see the hyperbole in the facts I've asserted so far.

    Is it that you believe Israel's Right Wing government's machinations have cost America less than $ Trillions or that US Troops are not in Israel and are not to be placed under Israeli command in the event of hostilities?

    No where else in the world where US Troops are deployed are they ever placed under foreign command except in Israel & as a Veteran with family & friends in the region, I don't want US G.I.s to become cannon fodder for an overt regional aggressor.

    Do you not believe that Israel has been launching unprovoked air strikes into Syria or that America could be drawn more deeply into the region if & when Syria responds?

    Thanks,
     

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