Jesus was a Muslim by US Religious professor

The evidence suggests that it is YOU who demonstrates a lack of understanding of scholarship.

 

I doubt very much that many Muslims would accept Christians as their own. Muslims generally, can`t even tolerate each other, they will never tolerate Christians. Historically, Christianity has been used as an excuse to wage war on people of differing beliefs, but the true intent of Christianity eventually shon through the darkness, giving rise to humanitarianism. Islam differs in this regard, this overbearing, consuming cult will never allow humanitarianism to germinate, or grow.

 

It is not a strange thing to say. Anyone who is talking about anti semitism in the modern era would need to refer to christianity for the roots of anti semitism.

I am surprised that you are so ignorant of historical fact.

In relation to the integration of Jews prior to the holocaust, while many Jews were integrated, many were not. in fact the rise of fascism had seen a move away from integration. also, many jews, especially those from eastern europe had never integrated much - whether the result of discrimination or a desire to keep their faith pure, it basically meant they were more easily identified as different, and this fed the rising anti semitism in that era.

I spend too much time fighting the strong racists on this forum to be able to check whether Marlowe's sources are factual. If he/she displays any anti semitism it is pretty mild, and seems to be supported by more independent sources than the racists who frequent this place.

I have never seen you counter the virulent anti semitism that appears from time to time on this forum. I wonder why that is?

 

So to be a muslim, you do not need to uphold the five pillars?
If you are a sunni, you don't consider shia's to be apostates?
If you eare a bible thumping alcholic you are a muslim?
If you are the pope you are a muslim?

Sorry, from where I sit if a "true muslim" believes everyone who submits to god is a muslim, then there ain't many true muslims in the world. What would you call the other 1,698,054,198 "muslims" in the world today?

 

?

I just didn't respond.

Ok.

 

I've been to Egyptian restaurants in the US. Never been to the Mid-East though I do want to go someday. Egypt, Israel, all over the place. Did I mention I'm heavily into archaeology? But I digress.

I could have used an Egyptian hotel as the location for all that it mattered. Nevertheless, the problem I've asked has yet to be answered. To wit, someone walks towards a group of devout Muslims somewhere in Egypt (although I could have used any number of countries). He introduces himself as a rabbi and a member of the tribe of Judah, and that he celebrates Succot and Passover, replies that salvation is of the Jews, and that He teaches in the temple, and followed the Torah as commanded by the laws of God. How do they react? Do they honor Him as a submitter to God's will, or ...

Well, we both know what will happen. Heck, we saw a version of it on TV a couple weeks ago.

And that's one reason why I say Jesus is not a Muslim. Because they wouldn't accept Him as such.

I will give you points for being polite even though we disagree. I certainly respect you for that. It seems like half the people on the World Events forums need Prozac. Or at least need to switch to decaf.

Edit to add: Forgot to answer the last part: I try to be a devout Christian and follow God in as much as I can, although I certainly have my failings. Still don't think a Muslim would accept me simply on that basis if I went up to him and asked though.

 

Man, so close too.

Well, I'm not a cloistered cleric, but I do know when an argument has holes in it. And that guy had it in spades. I'm not a pastor, but if even I could identify the holes in his reasoning, he has serious issues.

 

Where are the links to this scholarly evidence? Are you going to tell me to google it myself again? Or why not accuse me of trolling because I demand a source for your scholarly claims?

 

It's hard to say.

BEFORE the creation of Israel there would never have been any problem.

Since then you may have people in the restaurant whose family members were murdered by the Israelis or run over by their tanks as POW's or executed in the sand. You would have people still alive who fought the Israelis in their aggresive wars on Egypt. Egyptian military alive today who watched the Israelis shell Suez.
You would have others who see every day the treatment they give to Palestinians and maybe even some Egyptians sitting in Israelis jails like kids selling cigarettes to Israeli soldiers in prisons for years without trial.
You would have 90 million Egyptians watching TV hearing from your miniters that they would blow up the Aswan Dam and drown the whole of upper Egypt in huge wave.
You would have 90 million watching every day the lunatic leader threatening war and having his finger on nuclear warheads and lying about Iran having nuclear weapons as still there is NO PROOF!
You would have millions who probably had to fight for a gas bottle to cook and to eat and make bread while Mubarak gave gas away for virtually nothing to Israel.
You have 90 million who would be thinking IF it were NOT for the CREATION of Israel our region would have been in peace and not on constant alert and under threat.
No hamas, no Hezbullah, no resistance just Jews and Christians and Muslims living in Palestine like they did before all able to worship in Jerusalem.
No Mavi Marmara slaughter.
No need for aid convoys to the refugees.
No Palestinian refugees scattered all over the world.
No destruction of 1000 year old olive and orange groves.

There are thousands of reasons why the dear Israeli Rabbi would not be welcomed in a restaurant in Egypt.

Would he be beaten up?

No I dont think so unless he started trouble.

He would be probably taken to a police station as a 'spy'

Thats what usually happens then deported

 

First define these 'muslims'

Second what historical figures and places as our own?

explain

Possibly you are American? not much of an education? i have to take this into consideration when replying to you when you think that language is a culture?

The only thing I can say is you are coming into a discussion talking like a preparatory school student not as educated with knowledge on the subject.

no doubt it worked on you or you are still young and haven't studied much on the subject

 

WRONG. According SOME Muslims if you submit to ALLAH, you are a Muslim. If however you say I submit to Yahweh or the other names of God I doubt that any Muslim would accept that as a conversion.

I would advise any non Muslim to decline a conversion. Personally I would rather eat divine dog poo than convert. However, in direct opposition to the usual suspects many claim’s I am close minded and entrenched (whatever that means) etc I have converted, ie changed my entire believe/spiritual paradigm in the past (many times). This occurred when evidence emerged to discredit any belief system I was employing in my search for real spiritual (or non-spiritual) truth. As a matter of fact I would convert today if truth other than my current spiritual paradigm i.e. ‘Open Christianity’ was revealed by God and new evidences such as historical and archeological were discovered that showed my current beliefs were incorrect. Since that has not happened in the last eleven years I have not changed what I believe to be the metaphysical truth.

reva

 

I disagree, the mussies have done a lot of harm to the West and Israel... to liberally state that there is no need to point that out is myopic at best!

 

Of course in your case, you are a 'pot that is calling the kettle black'... Jeannette makes a lot of sense to me and I am an educator.

The Muslims (Islam) conquered land in the seventh Century they call their own today... Islam also conquered Spain a big chunk of France until you encountered Charles Martel, the Muslims conquered Sardinia, Corsica a part of Italy, the Middle East and the Far East to the extent of India, the Philippines, Indonesia etc., that quite a huge part of these countries is Muslim today...

Please do not belittle people here who know a little bit of history. If you ask any Egyptian today what is his identity he will answer proudly that he is an Egyptian ARAB, he will not mention that he is the descendent of Ancient Egyptians!

 

Egyptian Copts will not say they are arab in a lot of cases. DNA evidence points to a more ancient indigenous origin of those who call themselves Copts in Egypt. I think this is the key here. Arabs just invaded and assimilated. No culture excepted Islam out of missionary work.

Islam and Christianity share a lot of things in common in it's history but hell. I am glad the Crusaders kept Islam at bay for long. Allowed our ancestors the time they needed to form empires and develop superior weapons and now western culture reigns supreme, and Islam culture is considered some barbarian leftover from yesteryear.

 

I too agree with you Jeannette. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread Muslims including some Muslim Scholars who should know better insist on relying on and promoting illegitimate revisionist history versions of Islam’s past and beginning. Worse, current events are often misrepresented either intentionally or accidentally in the same fashion. The Palestine* issue is a good example.

footnotes;
*There should be no need to clarify what I meant by the Palestine issue. Its been discussed at length in this forum.

reva

 

First, for someone with so little to say yourself, you are quick to press buttons.
Second, a dislike from such as yourself, is akin to a like from an intelligent person.

 

That's a matter of opinion . You are ofcourse entitled to yours. However , my experience was very different . My parents were easy going - nominal " C of E., I was christened according to custom , apart from standard bible lessons at school , religion was not drummed into me. In later life when I encountered a few Muslims, having been invited to their homes , I never noticed any hostility on the contrary , I found them extremely hospitable. + much l;ater during 3 yrs contract in Saudi , plus travel to other countries with Muslim majorities , my experience has been the direct opposite to what you've said.


Peraps you should go out into the real world and meet a few muslims socially . or join an interfaith group. (wink)


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Suggesting that someone is not educated then misuse a lower case letter when an uppercase is required is a bit comical. Then there is the above statement. Hmm' well maybe you should read this link or simply Google; language as a part of culture ;

Language as a part of culture - EnglishClub
my.englishclub.com/profiles/blogs/language-as-a-part-of-culture - Cached
I was reading the other day that not long ago, say 200+ years, a different
language was considered just one feature of a different culture ...http://my.englishclub.com/profiles/blogs/language-as-a-part-of-culture

reva

 

Well said , such a lamebrain can safely be put on ignore. an absolute waste of space.


(wink)

 

Congratulations , REV - you are the winner of this months Pedant -- Nit Picker Award.


Jeeeeeeezus . English is Abu's second or perhaps third or fourth language.


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I bet there are people here who think the non muslim Egyptians write like this

 

I too know many Muslims all of them moderate. Even one of my surgeons is Muslim, so I trust her with my bones in her hands. (she is an orthopedic and screwed and glued me together after I crashed my HD one fine evening). I do not think aussiefree2ride was referencing moderate rank and file Muslims nor was referencing one on one relationships, but rather was speaking of Islam’s violent geopolitical and historical history including current events. What he said is that Muslims will never tolerate Christians which is true.(as a religion especially when given free reign)

There are many examples of Muslim aggression and expansionism. One of the many is Indonesia. Once thought to be an "moderate" Muslim country today we know the truth. Islamic extremist and terrorism has become the order of the day. Remember the infamous Bali bombings? On 12 October, 2002, 202 people were murdered many of them foreign vacationers. Muslim terrorists attacked Bali a second time, although less deadly than the 2002 bombing and the 2005 attack all were part of an ongoing campaign of violence by Jemaah Islamiyah, an Islamic terror group in Indonesia.

Assuie mentioned Christians. The Christian minority in Indonesia have suffered numerous attacks via rMuslims in the name of Allah. These attacks have included atrocities such as the rape, murder, and beheadings of Christian schoolgirls. rMuslims have aggressively taken over and they are now in the process of cleansing the country of all other religions not only of Christianity but Catholicism, Buddhism and all others as well. I haven’t even touched on the rMuslim aggressions and atrocities in several countries bordering Russia, nor China where Islam is now skirmishing with the government as well as with the Buddhism faithful. So no I can not agree with Marlowe's fantasy of a peaceful Islam when viewed from an historical or contemporary global standpoint.

reva

 

REV - once again repeating Half truths , are you ?

. Read and learn :

"First of all, it is important to note that "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word "God" with a capital "G".

Additionally, the word "Allah" cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur'an, which is the holy scripture of Muslims, was revealed in the Arabic language, some Muslims use the word "Allah" for "God", even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word "Allah", since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language that they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam - even though they have been translated in every major language - have been preserved in the Arabic language.



It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word "El", which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word "Allah" than the English word "God". This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are "El" and "Elah", and the plural form "Elohim".

The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. It should also be noted that in translating the Bible into English, the Hebrew word "El" is translated variously as "God", "God" and "angel"!

This imprecise language allows different translators, based on their preconceived notions, to translate the word to fit their own views. The Arabic word "Allah" presents no such difficulty or ambiguity, since it is only used for Almighty God alone. Additionally, in English, the only difference between "God", meaning a false God, and "God", meaning the One True God, is the capital "G".

In the Arabic alphabet, since it does not have capital letters, the word for God (i.e. Allah) is formed by adding the equivalent to the English word "the" (Al-) to the Arabic word for "God/God" (ilah). So the Arabic word "Allah" literally it means "The God" - the "Al-" in Arabic basically serving the same function as the capital "G" in English. Due to the above mentioned facts, a more accurate translation of the word "Allah" into English might be "The One -and-Only God" or "The One True God".


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REVI - Remember what they say abt a "little knowledge " ?


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Thanks I like awards! Nevertheless when someone criticizes another for a lack of education then writes like they are not educated at all, well that is inviting comment.

If you believe that I have some rather expensive ocean front property in Montana I will sell to you cheap! What proof or evidence do you have for that claim? I am not saying its impossible, stranger things have been true. However, personally, I am highly skeptical (to say the least). I may believe it if he would agree to speak or debate on web cam in a real time discussion with some of my friends who are fluent in many languages.

reva

 

Glad to hear that you've other experiences with people of other faiths , which was not mentioned in the post I responded to.

Its been said the only lesson we learn from history is that we learn nothing from it. Although one wish it not be so, Human conflict is in the nature of the beast. YOUR O T God commanded war +_ slaughter in HIS name - Read your bible .

Considering how Christinianity has EXPANDED worldwide - your ref to Islams "expansionism " is hilariously stupid.

IMO - Christianity has the most appaling record of committing atrocities , much worse than any other belief systems , contrary to Christian claims + the teaching of the Prince of Peace.

It was'nt muslims who murdered 6 million Jews , it wasnt Muslims who nearly exterminated all of North + South Native Americans . You may now say , yes that was in the past , but is it . ? How many Afghans /Iragis/Vietnamese etc.etc was slaughtered during the past half century ?>


IMO - as long as there are muslims who regard Western powers (Christiandom ) as an existential threat, there'll be some who'll feel desparate enough to react as they do today.

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Just saying it as I see it.

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