Khadafi Deposed - Does Obama get any Credit?

Not as much as I would like to see to be sure.

I didn't support it per se either, I figured we have enough going on in Iraq and Afghanistan atm, and I'm unsure why it was so important for Khaddafi to be ousted. Time will tell I guess, if this was a good or bad move.

 

You want a repeat of Iraq??? Iran is a HUGE country and its not already crippled by two wars and a decade of sanctions.

You ready to borrow 10 Trillion dollars from the Chinese to "Liberate Iran"?

 

They wanted aggressive regime change, they were simply to cowardly to say it until they thought they could say it with some backing. Our global leadership role is diminished by such lame tactics.

Do you honestly think behind closed doors they weren't pushing it aggressively? Of course they were, this is an idiotic publicity stunt to satiate American liberals who support all this multi-lateral nonsense.

Credit and respect on the international stage is not determined by such ploys, it is determined by our ability to benefit whatever nations are involved in whatever ventures we intend to move forward with. You didn't see trade embargoes on the US when we did thing our way, you didn't see people breaking alliances and trade deals. That's nothing but fluff talk. Power determines the levels of respect nations receive, not appearances.

 

Don't be silly.

Obama didn't have to invade Libya.

A fact that liberals are sooooooo proud of.

And there is no reason to assume he would have to invade Iran either.

 

Those are interesting comparisons. It really makes you wonder what would have been different if Obama had been CINC when 9/11 happened (that could be a whole other thread topic).


However the current crop of GOP have sufficiently distanced themselves from Bush. It really won't be effective to run against Bush policy except where Republican candidates are explicitly advocating it.

 

No, that will be on Nato`s hands.

 

If the people hadn't rebelled, the status quo would have remained.. Hess, Marathon, BP, ENI, TOTAL, Occidental, Conoco Phillips, Dutch Shell would be pumping oil..

We have power.. You simply don't recognize it as such..

 

Classic con non-think stink.

There's plenty to blame Obama on, and plenty to applaude, it's the latter that has your panties all bunched up.

 

Boy, if you thought we were greeted as liberators in Iraq........

Regime change in Iran is something that we need to steer clear of. It didn't work out so well the first time we did it.......I think they probably still remember that. Grudges tend to persist over there....

I kind of get the feeling Iranians wouldn't appreciate the help.

 

You missed a step.. that poster wants Obama to invade Iran yesterday.

We don't need some dumb, half drunk bully boy for a president..

 

It seems to me the service members are forgotten by the media, all praise go to their candidate.

It was foolish and set a very bad precedent, the use of moral justification without other interests opens the door to things like Somalia and Darfur. Granted an incursion to either at the moment is unlikely, the door has been opened to similar situations in the future.

 

Seems that way sometimes, unless it's a casket photo op or something.

 

We should have stayed out of it regardless, we gained nothing from it anyway at the cost of close to a $1 billion we don't have.

The form of economic power you are implying rests in our industries, not with the federal government. When it comes to conducting policy on the global scale we still rely on our now impotent and useless State Department to set forth the expectations of our national goals. We are seriously diminished by these faulty tactics.

 

Then what is all this lib blather about the importance of making democracy flower in the Middle East?

Obama did not have to invade Libya yet you assume that he would have invaded Iran?

Why?

Iran is fighting against the US in Iraq and Afghanistan without invading the US.

Are they smarter than our Vacationer in Chief?

 

US oil companies operating in Libya are NOT government entities.

Obama has more respect and power than Bush ever had.. Bush was considered a reckless boob by MOST of the world.

 

Exactly. Conservatives bumble into one costly losing adventure after the next.

Reagan could hardly contain himself in his desire to send stinger missile to jihadists and Bin Ladin in Afghanistan. Result: 9-11.

He armed Saddam: result the Gulf War and the second Gulf War.

He sent arms to Iran, our sworn enemy, who is now the hegemon in the region thanks to Bush foolish, expensive invasion.

The lost opportunity costs by themselves -- spending trillions on idiotic invasions instead of fortifying US security -- has made us much less safe.

In contrast, Clinton and Obama contained terrorists by being smart, using soft power and minimal intervention.

You would think the Tea Party would applaud that, but of course all conservatives are hypocrites and don't really stand for anything but tax cuts for the rich.

 

I know they are not government entities, I never said they were. I'm saying the economic power that was granted to those private entities was first forged through the opening of relations with Libya through foreign policy. Such things are not always going to be the case in the future as companies continue to globalize and can make their own economic deals with nations on a level they never had available to them in the past. I was far to simplistic in my statement, I apologize.

Obama's 'respect' is a far cry from US power. He chases an ego booster like 'respect' and diminishes our ability to use the true indicator, which is our power: economic, military, and even softer forms. In more basic terms, when it comes to foreign policy, barring a significant change in treaties, alliances, or other major policy shift, the president is simply a representative presiding over what has been forged over centuries or decades.

In the case of the Middle Eastern countries and their recent changes, such as Egypt and Libya, there was no alliances, no significant treaties, or other massive policy shifts that would interfere with our ability to operate under the unilateral form of foreign policy we should be engaged in. We should be leading, not following and chasing meager concepts like 'respect'.

 

Bush was the one jabbering about Democracy in the Middle East not Obama..

We don't have to bomb people into democracy.. to do business with them and its NOT our call.. Nevermind that it NEVER works.. The people have to CHOOSE Democracy.

 

Obama hasn't forced our version of Democracy on anyone....

 

I think the lib line about democracy in the ME is allowing democracy to bloom organically.

I thought libs were peaceniks.....where's this blather you're talking about?

I never said "Invade"..... This is only your imagination I guess.

I guess we played into their hands didn't we? They're definitely smarter than our most recently retired Vacationer in Chief. Iran is much more powerful and influential in the world now than when Saddam was acting as a counter-balance to them.

 

EXCELLENT post...........

 

All that effort into posts and I keep getting one liners...

When did anyone push our form on anyone else? Our form of democracy is supposed to represent the best potential model, I don't believe anyone has ever actually put forth that others immediately grasp it and move directly to it. What I have seen is pushing a form of democracy in which the people decide their fate not dictators. If anyone has proposed directly moving to a carbon copy of our form of democracy I would say they are wrong, as it fails to account for the history and differences in cultures and levels of development necessary to achieve such things.

 

The world hated the US during the Bush era.. for being arrogant bullies and know it alls.. for being reckless and dangerous.

The US has NO idea what sort of government any other country SHOULD have.

 

Obama didn't do anything other than place some of our air forces under the command of Nato; Nato can get the credit.

Can we also give them and Obama the blame when the country descends into a violent civil war which is sure to follow in the power vacuum left by Gadaffy? AND, can we wait until Gadaffy is actually deposed to celebrate?

I know the worshipping Obamaphiles are desperate to deflect from Obama's domestic failures in order to mask his lack of leadership; but lets at least wait for some real success and give credit where credit is due.

 

The Libyans will reject the Iraqi model.. they will not dismiss their police and civil service.. Those institutions will remain intact.

They know that not everyone who had a government job liked Khadafi.

And, Libya has a small population. I think they will focus on reconciliation rather than reprisals.

Libyan embassies around the world have thrown out their pictures of Khadafi.