Let's Call Trumpism what it is - American Fascism.

You dispute that? How many ideologues have you met who didn't think that?

 

That's a very good point. I think you're onto something there, sadly.

 

No president in history has claimed the press is the enemy of the people.

Nixon, in private, said 'the press is the enemy', as in HIS enemy, the distinction is important, and, again, stated in private ( on the tapes).

 

I asked you if you've ever met an ideologue who didn't think their particular enemy was the enemy of the people.

 

He actually gets sworn-in sometime in January (I'm thinking of the 20th, but maybe I just have a dental appointment that day). But I'm not really concerned w/ arguing over the moment it becomes, "official." As I said to the other poster, it's clear as day that he IS the President-elect.

 

Fact remains:
Biden, constitutionally and legally, does not become the President-elect until actually elected.
This happens in December,

 

I don't give **** about ideologues, the concern is that we have a president shouting 'the press is the enemy of the people' and no president in history does that', only dictators talk like that.

 

And is there any point to your semi-specific nugget of info, or are you just anal about those kinds of things? But before you continue reiterating your stressing of the official elector-voting month (as if the ultimate result was at all in question, or we didn't already know how they would be voting-- except for the few awaiting the results of a recount, which will not change the winner), I would like you to take one moment to consider the scenario, reversed: Trump has Biden's vote, and has been declared the winner by states possessing 306 electors; Biden 232 electors & the same flimsy lawsuits in the works. We'll have to pretend that Biden hasn't conceded & congratulated the clear winner (because he certainly would have, as any others in that position always have).

Now, imagine that Biden supporters are making the case to YOU that, "it's not of-FICI-al, yeeet!" If you don't tell 'em to wipe the snot from their nose, grow a pair, & handle the loss as if they were any self-respecting man, then proceed. But if your response to them would be anything other than supportive, then how 'bout you act like any decent, mature, less -than-total hypocrite? I acknowledged your fact. I even added that Trump's term goes into January (so, clearly, official vote or not, Biden still won't be the President before Inauguration day). It's all irrelevant to my post, to which you replied.

That post of mine, was a reply to Thedimon's post. HE was the one who suggested that, because the mainstream media gave Biden, "a helping hand," that makes Biden an illegitimate President. I was, in my reply, accepting his assumption (& the assumption of anyone with a practical bone in their bodies-- not to shame your minority condition, if you don't have one). So, if you still feel the need to emphasize this point to someone, it is rightly THEDIMON, to whom you should be making it. Glad I could clear that up for you. (Give Thedimon my regards).

 

Uh, sorry to inform you but it's not a "liberal trick" if I make it explicit that that's what I'm doing. Debating over accurate definitions is one the most elemental forms of debate. Trying to dodge this is usually a sign that you don't have confidence in your own preferred definitions of terms. But then again, truth does have a well-know liberal bias.

Well, here is where logic and language breaks down. You might as well deny "water is wet." It's the gaslighting strategy of the Big Lie, that the political nihilists who support demagogues typically resort to. Denying the basic facts of reality leave us with nothing further to talk about.

 

I don't know what studies you're referring to, but this is patently false. ANY ecologist will tell you, that suburban sprawl is much worse in terms of per capita consumption & waste production, than living in densely occupied cities. Probably you are working with a mental model which dates to the 19th century, where we could say that your average city dweller creates more pollution than a farmstead in the country. But the suburbs is not life on the pre-industrial farm.

-?? This also is prima facie false. A standard motive for living in a dense urban area is that you cut out the commute.

Urbanites might contribute more to greenhouse gas emissions than a small-town dweller; but we aren't talking about them here, we're comparing the urban and suburban landscape's contribution to California's current ecological crisis.

 

You said Trump is the enemy of the people.

All ideologues regard their enemy as the enemy of the people.

 

Funny how your response does not provide examples of the xenophobic nationalism you claim.

 

1) Urban as in non-rural. Includes suburbia.

2) Nope, it's absolutely true. Urban people TRAVEL far more than non-urban people. TRAVEL .. not commute. And what makes it so much worse is that they do it for pleasure. That's fine of course, if you're (not you personally, people generally) a climate change denier or just don't care - but if you're the type who claims to care about the environment yet take vacations involving jets or long distances, you're a total phoney.

3) Probably shouldn't have offered sanctuary to all those illegal aliens.

 

Sorry, not gonna indulge the Big Lie. Not gonna give it any oxygen.

 

Trump is NOT an ideologue, and I am NOT talking about ideologues.

Got that?

 

Yes - exactly - and there are many other examples in both the secular and non secular realm. What you bring up is secular propaganda - we then need to distinguish between State Sponsored - and that by other actors - both foreign and domestic.

How about the "Moderate Rebel Lie" - one the MSM still won't touch.

Equal work for Equal Pay - and for quite some time now studies show that women doing the same work - same context and conditions - are paid equally - and in fact it is illegal to do otherwise. .. and the glass ceiling is shattering .. this has taken awhile because the up eshalons are generally older - and back when - there were not many women on this path ...so it took a bit longer, but is kicking in full steam these days.

There are not barriers like there were - and a young gal laughs at you if you try to tell them otherwise. This above is a remnent from Nazi Fem movement - there are more barriers for men now than for women - which shows up in College demographics - now 60% women.

 

I'm 70, no one ever raised the issue until Trump.

See, Trump has poisoned the landscape and guys like you have lapped it up.

 

No, basically what has existed in this country for very many years, perhaps before AOC was even born.

 

Then surely Obama and Biden are the same? It's just a different people's anger, fear and resentment? Fascism is for dictators, American is one of the most democratic nations on earth.

 

No, I don't see Obama or Biden as stirring up division among the citizenry. Quite the contrary, in fact.

My point with the OP is that Fascism is not just for dictators... Often dictatorships are created out of democracies or republics. A people in thrall to Fascist politics will willingly throw away their freedom and suborn themselves to a political Cult of Personality. If the Trump nation were their own country, they would have done exactly that. It's only the rest of us that are keeping the US a free society.

 

Thank you for demonstrating you cannot provide examples of the xenophobic nationalism you claim.
Thus, your premise fails.

 

Uh, No. I can engage in a good-faith argument, as I've proven on this thread. I won't engage gaslighting trolls.

 

Funny how you say that, knowing you have not demonstrated the "xenophobic nationalism" and "domestic authoritarianism" of the "Trump phenomenon".

If you cannot demonstrate the (self-serving and incomplete) tenets of your definition of "fascism" actually apply to the "Trump phenomenon", you then have no rational basis for your characterization of said phenomenon as "American fascism".

 

Sorry, the burden of rejoinder's on you. If you can't even begin to make a case that my definition is "self-serving and incomplete" (aside simply from making the empty assertion that it is) then my stipulated definition stands.

Look man, this isn't hard. This is a political forum. My OP is an argument. All you've done is assert that "You haven't made an argument," or "You have contradicted yourself," or "You haven't proven your point," without supplying your warrant for thinking so. I'm not going to do your work for you.

 

Trumpsters are clear fascists. The real problem though isn't Trump. It is the Dems ignoring the rightward, and populist, shift. They think they can continue their corporatist status quo. That won't work. Indeed, imagine the next fascist without Trump's limitations. There will be nothing to stop him/her...

I despair, as an internationalist, at Dem uselessness.