Let's Call Trumpism what it is - American Fascism.

Still, there's always a little space for a tambourine or triangle, added with discretion.

As to your comment about the internet, in a related aside, have you ever entered a fractious thread in which the lines of conflict were so tense, & clearly drawn, that the environment advised finding supportive company in your argument, to avoid the eventuality of being attacked from all quarters? The analogy occurred to me of walking out onto a new prison yard-- while l'd been considering a thread about Hell-- & realizing that, despite any aversions you might have to some of their ideology or tactics, there was an implicit, & compelling, case for choosing a side.

 

Obviously, you didn't bother to read the definition of fascism before you chose to slander with it. One of it's core actions is forcible suppression of opposition.
From an article by Bradford Betz:

"Former President Barack Obama on Sunday compared President Trump to a dictator who suppresses journalists – even though his own administration’s tainted record on press freedom included once secretly monitoring reporters, including Fox News. Obama made the comparison during an appearance on CBS’ “60 Minutes,” with host Scott Pelley. It came in response to Pelley asking the former commander-in-chief to give his thoughts on President Trump’s claims of voter fraud, as well as his supporters perpetuating those allegations"

Though Trump has been forceful in his denunciation of the press, that is not suppression- that is objection; protest. The Obama administration arguably went further, evoking the Espionage Act to prosecute more people under the law for leaking sensitive information than all previous administrations combined."

Another is regimentation of society. Had Trump been a fascist- troops would have crushed the rioting criminals, hammered the jackasses seizing part of Seattle and jailed them, and probably- put the public officials that enable that crap behind bars.

Trump asked us to take pride in ourselves, help rebuild our nation and make America great again. What a nasty, evil idea; it's no wonder some people hated him for it.

 

Im a naturalized citizen. Grew up in former USSR. Saw. Dictatorship and suppression of freedom of speech with my own eyes.
The only party that shows authoritarian fascism traits is the Democratic Party. Masks, federal stay at home orders, sticking the federal government into areas where it never belonged, use of brown shirts to suppress dissent - it’s all progressives, not conservatives!

Sorry, but you got it wrong.

 

It's refreshing to see posters attempting to use definitions of terms in furtherance of rational public discussion.

Regarding fascism, I like the 1984 version of Webster's definition of the term: "A philosophy or governmental system marked by stringent socioeconomic control, a strong central government usually headed by a dictator, and often belligerently nationalistic policy."

 

The sophisticated mind control techniques used on religious adherents makes is definitely problematic --such folks can not be reasoned with.

There is a similar effect that can be seen in the case of secular brainwashing as well. - although not quite as severe as in the case of extremist religious right groups - who will argue the earth is flat if it helps maintain precious belief.

Claiming "I know I am Right" is one thing - Claiming "God says so" - that is over the top.

 

I might follow your suggestion if I find a suitable instrument; I could be tempted by castanets, even though I have no Spanish blood in my veins.

Many threads on this forum are quite tense, including this very one. You and Modus Ponens have been able to give it a more peacefull tone, though.

 

I'll take the word of those who've lived under Fascism/ Communism (for practical purposes one and the same) over clueless wretch's who spout we have it here because their candidate lost.

 

Very surprising you've been charmed by Trump, then, an emulator of Putin. Or you do not consider Putin a dictator?
Spassibo

 

Trump lost!

 

Seems you missed the whole point of my post - I am stipulating an updated understanding of what Fascism is, and viewing the Trump phenomenon in light of it.

- And yet, no serious person has ever thought to call Obama a Fascist; while Trump's whole style, not just particular actions he has taken, has smacked of Fascism to informed observers.

Obama was pretty aggressive in trying to keep the government's secrets; this was in accord with his aggressiveness in pursuing counterterrorist measures (the expansion of the Drone War, the killing of Anwar Nasser al-Awlaki). He was a disciplined man, and did not want the drama of upstart members of his command leaking to the press. I'd say that's simply good Administration. A moment's reflection should make clear to you that there is a difference between enforcing already-existing law on these kinds of matters, and Trump's instinct for abuse of the law in order to intimidate people who he regarded as personally disloyal. That is the style of an autocrat. But in general Trump defenders don't have the discernment (or the intellectual honesty) to recognize the germ of Totalitarianism in Trump's conduct.

Again, this is just dishonest. Fascist leaders have to exercise a certain political art, to draw what was once a free society under their thrall. It begins with developing a fanatically committed political base - the bigger the better, but it is invariably always a minority of the population. Once in power, aspiring Fascists proceed in a stepwise way to make the political opposition illegitimate. The "regimentation of society" comes at the end of the process, and even then only in cases where Fascism tips into Totalitarianism (which doesn't necessarily have to happen, in order for the State to still be Fascist).

A little exercise in pointing out your hypocrisy is always clarifying. Conservatives could and did refer to Obama as a Fascist (and worse), for every exercise of his power that had troubling implications for civil liberties. The same Conservatives who had zero problem when those same powers were exercised by a Republican president. But Trump's whole conduct of office has gone way, WAY past any of that (calling his own intelligence dept. traitors?!, etc. ETC.) - and all we get is crickets from you (and some openly defending his autocratic style). Your hypocrisy here is just egregious. Try to imagine for one minute how you would be reacting if Obama said and did even a fraction of what Trump has, and maybe then you'll see the light.

Trump made a direct appeal to an invidious, Us vs. Them nationalism - the "Them" in this case being a good half of his own countrymen. "My country, wrong or right" is nothing to be proud of.

 

Trump wasn’t jailing journalists and didn’t take over mass media. Nor did he suppress progressives in any way.
His supporters aren’t attacking their opponents.
Democrats turned into an authoritarian force that uses brown shirts to suppress dissent. Their “morality” is no different than the morality preached by Bolsheviks 100 years ago.
In democracy, when one side wins, another side respectfully allows the other side to drive. In the last 4 years progressives pushed the message “my way or highway”. What we are seeing here is not democracy, it’s Pootins style usurpation of power by the use of mainstream media to suppress dissent.

 

Well, you may sincerely believe all that. But I sincerely believe you're deluded. The Left posing a cultural threat to you is not even in the same ballpark as the Fascist style of rule that the Republicans actually in power in the government have tried to implement. That you can't tell the difference is a sad comment on democracy.

 

Yes he did.
But would he lose if mainstream media didn’t suppress and attack him on every corner?
Good luck with trying to deal with this legitimacy problem of the US president.

 

What “cultural threat”?

 

What?

 

Yep, perhaps the first thing Befuddled Joe will do is shut down all of Trumps concentration camps and crematoria. I repeat, CLUELESS!!!

 

Give it up friend, they've spent the last 4 years fantasizing they're the resistance in occupied France. LOL

 

Any internal dispute over the legitimacy of our President is the problem of ALL Americans! Good luck to each of us-- though keeping an open mind, & wanting to find consensus, will serve us a lot better than, "luck."

 

If you didn’t want Biden’s legitimacy questioned, you should have objected to mainstream media and mass media giving him a helping hand.
Because now, considering the tiny margins of victory, one can make a legitimate claim that the US president was appointed by a handful of CEOs.
The US literally fits into the definition of oligarchy now.

 

"America Alone", right because these nations gave a damn about us before Trump became President(if that were the case, which it wasn't/isn't.) there wouldn't have been a Trump to begin with. We've been alone from the start. The only question is, are we going to be European/Chinese serfs, under the guise of "having friends" or the "global village" or the "international community"

Or are we going to start demanding our slice of the pie? Why should we alone be a guarantor against Russia in Europe? Where is THEIR guarantee for us?

It's nowhere. And you can say even less for China, who we "opened the doors for" in the international community, and their response to gratitude has been to utterly decimate the American financial machine.

The old saying "don't throw pearls before swine" is very accurate here. It's time for America, self independent and virtuous as she was created, to say to herself that yes, she can 'stand alone' if her only allies use and betray her, and do so knowing that half of the country is duped into believing it's an American Advantage.

 

Some people grow old and never develop the ability to think for themselves; never question their beliefs and verify they are accurate- and buy the whole package from the sellers of..... Shall we sale, Male Bovine Excrement. Sorry, I'm not one of those people.

IF you knew what Obama did behind the scenes, YOU would be seeing the light. Politics is by it's very nature a very dirty and corrupt business. Trump is the first president in living history to be elected with out the anointing of the national party and the support of big donors- meaning they are bought and paid for in advance, and those backing them are not being generous. They are investing- and they expect to profit handsomely from it when their man wins. Obama was only different in that he saw himself as laying the groundwork for socialism and liberal controls of government- AND of you. This bull crap we've been fighting ever since didn't come out of nowhere; the seeds has already been planted and sprouted.

As Joe kennedy (JFK's father) told him- "What you are doesn't matter in politics. What people think you are is what matters".

In other words, politics is won or lost by public perception of your image, not reality- so you present what the public thinks they want to hear. Every major politician knows this. Every campaign manager and publicity agent knows this. Every career politician knows it is the voters weakness- We the people want to think we are electing honesty and goodness,we will prefer and accept a comfortable lie, and reject an uncomfortable truth..... so that is what they feed you. All of them. Comfortable lies that you are ready to accept.

This has been true all your life; politicians literally screen public sentiment to discover what image they will endorse, then present that image, regardless of reality. They choose their words, or more likely words chosen by speechwriters working with lawyers choosing their words, so they can tell you what you want to hear while maintaining no real commitment to delivering it. Snake oil.
Funny how people have been yearning for a president that was real and called things like they are all their lives, and so many hate it when it happens. That's not a poor president, that's poor and irresponsible people- poor citizenship. Gullible, unrealistic, idealistic people. Politicians love it.

Trump came to the race having never been a politician, and having no respect for the deception of the people politicians have always relied on, and you have always complained about. Trump did not have the obligations to party nor big money influence buyers that every one of his predecessors had- and you have never known any other president that didn't. Trump presented himself transparently- no pretense. His personality flaws have always been visible; unlike all the others who hid theirs from you. Obviously Hillary was very popular among voters, but the people who worked close around her found her hateful, arrogant, petty, abusive, vicious and insulting, seeing herself as superior to all. One of the most striking incidents that comes from secret service agents assigned to protect her was like the one where an agent greeted her with "Good morning, Mam" and she looked him in the eye and told him to "F*** Off". She wanted the military officers around the White House to stop wearing uniforms because she didn't like seeing soldiers. She told agents that if they saw her coming, they should duck in a doorway and get out of her sight. You never saw anything like that in her interviews or press conferences of course- you saw the image you were supposed to see, but never the person she really was. Even when those truths came out, her followers chose to ignore them rather than re-examine their support.... that's how the snake oil works. You refuse to consider that you might be wrong; more comfortable to stick with the position you have already taken than be wrong. That's how people cooperate with and become willing victims of dirty politics. If the lies of the politicians you have supported become known to you, you then lie to yourself so you won't have to face your mistake.

And you think Trump being honest and open about his personality was some kind of bad thing.

 

FAKE NEWS!

 

I did. Simple, clear, and irrefutable:
The conditions you claim do not exist, and thus, your premise is necessarily unsound.

 

Since we're talking about the US, the US constitution applies.

Unsupportable nonsense.

 

Leftists, liberals, and Democrats only take issue with authoritarianism when the other side does it.