LGBT bill to ban therapy for youth on sexual orientation issues is stalled in Mass.

Do you dispute religious influences did not create abstinence only programs? You are the one that blindly defends religious principals.

You would be incorrect that this is a new issue, my Grandmother had her first child at 13 - people just had work ethic and family values at one point. That has evaporated, people have 6+ children now due to irresponsibility and governmental benifits, fathers are in prison, and children are being raised with the notion that they are superior through no effort of their own or left to fend entirely for themselves.

We can either attempt new methods to rectify these problems or double down on methods shown to no longer be effective. Whether we like it or not the world has changed - our policies must follow.

 

The overwhelming majority of the people that have asserted they have changed their orentation entirely are some way tied into a profit motive of ex-gay therapy being valid. Several people have indicated reduced attraction to the same sex but they were bisexual at the begining of the study. Many have admitted to sexual defunction after the therapy.

 

We were doing just fine until the hedonism set in.

 

Many people receive many different types of treatments for many different problems, and still have problems. So what?

It's highly politicized on both sides. So what?

The APA says not enough study has been done to either, a) determine why people oriented a certain way, or b) determine if conversion therapy actually works. I've posted from their website several times.

 

you need to understand that the preface IMO should be assumed every time a statement is made about

born gay
can't change how they have sex

 

the hypocrisy of the homsoexual movement is what I and others continue to point out on this forum.

There are cases where people have stopped living the gay lifestyle be it on their won or after receiving counseling.

The point from the homosexuals is that if it's not 100% effective then it must be banned.

So, you take that logic and put it to

smoking cessation programs which aren't 100% successful
prisoner rehabilitation which is not 100% successful
heart bypass surgery again, not 100% successful

and ask if their logic should be apllied to those as well and ban all of them and it's a different story

The only reason that I can see for that hypocrisy is because it will illuminate the fact that one is not born homosexual any more than one is born a criminal or a smoker

 

A man can consider it a disease if he chooses. A child, however, should not be coerced into thinking that way. Adults have a responsibility to help children become happy, healthy, self-confident adults. Do you have children?

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Anacdotes don't prove anything. I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence for the existence of big foot.

When you use anecdotes to support your claims you aren't being intellectually honest.

I stated that the attempt to alter sexual orientation is not proven and likely based more on feelings than actual reason.

If you are claiming that conversion is successful to any degree, the burden of proof is in you. Anecdotes aren't proof.

 

We aren't talking about changing lifestyle. Anybody can do that. It's about changing sexual orientation.

The fact that it's not effective, I believe the effective rate is below 1% is not why they are talking about banning it. It's the harm that it causes.

 

If the programs you refer to had a sub marginal chance of success (even accounting for individuals who had financial gain from their orientation changing the success rate is below 2%) and were shown to cause mental trauma then they would be comparable.

Also your examples are directly damaging to the individual while homosexuality, on its on, is not.

Ignore, defeflect and deny seems to be the new anti-gay message.
The public is no longer buying it - 68% of us in fact.

 

Homosexuality isn't about how you have sex. It's about being oriented toward male or female respectively.

 

thus it is unethical to administer conversion therapy.

Your posting of the apa comments really proves conversion therapy is unethical.
Much of science indicates it's something that cannot be changed.

 

People seek medical treatment for diagnosed and treatable ailments that have medical solutions.

There is only one area in which some people (~32% of the US population) advocate for licensed medical therapists practicing a therapy that is not proven to work and treats something that may not be treatable is with homosexuality.

Your point b acknowledges this yet you still deny the fact.

 

They might not need them if we actually taught them about sex, but that's a whole other topic.

 

Ya and before the 60s only half the population really had a say. Women... remember our place prior to the 60s?! It's a lot different when women have a say in their own sexual expression.

 

Basically what it does is outlaws counseling to ratify that a person is heterosexual, but allows counseling to ratify that a person is gay.

 

But if there isn't a biological aspect to sexual orientation, how do you prove they changed? They can no more prove they changed orientations than I can prove I was born a lesbian right? Why do you take them at their word but not me at mine?

 

You are incorrect but you would know that if you actually read the bill you are committing on.
It would bar unproven and often dangerous attempts to alter orientation in either direction - that includes from heterosexuality to homosexuality.

 

To replace "all" with "some" all that's needed is a single anecdote, and "all" becomes untrue.

 

Ok I blame the sex revolution and misguided feminism.

- - - Updated - - -

There may be a biological reason, but it hasn't been discovered.

 

Coerced is exactly what the left-guided APA and others advocate. Sorry, son, gay is your only option.

 

sec doesn't believe that. He has stated in the past here at PF, that even if you are attracted to the same gender sexually, have homoerotic fantasies, etc.....as long as you don't actually have homosexual sex, you're "not really homosexual."

If you like I'll PM you why he believes that....if you can't figure it out yourself.

 

By the time they show up for help, they already know what they are. They are not being assigned a status.

I want to hear from those of you who have kids. It is your opinion that counts. If one of your kids confided in you that he/she thinks they're gay, what would you do?

 

I would explain that, like handedness (a progay analogy from this thread), you can change it. I will explain the reasons why gay is riskier in stuff like increased chances of STDs, clinical depression, etc, and get them any help they want..... even if others call me a homophobic bigot for searching out things they don't want to believe works.

 

There is no need to goat someone into a personal discussion about their family. You can assume most of us have kids because we're adults.

Being told you're orientation is predetermined and cannot change is assigning a status with no scientific evidence to support it.