LGBT bill to ban therapy for youth on sexual orientation issues is stalled in Mass.

it's just more of the same.... "you are born gay"

really, prove it then by linking me to the discussion of when they found the gene that makes someone gay

"I can't.... but still, you are born gay"

 

I was not suggesting telling them that it was predetermined. I was asking what you would do if it were one of your kids. Its easy to throw advice out there for others, but its not so easy if you have to do it. Feel free to dodge the question or ignore it.

If you are the kind of parent who would tell your kids homosexuality is unacceptable, your kids know that in advance and would never be honest with you about it in the first place.

My kids know that I don't have negative feelings towards gay people and know that I would love them just the same. They know they can tell my anything without fear. Feel free to disagree, but I will be the first one to tell you that you are selfish and put your own beliefs above your child's happiness.

 

I have and will continue to teach my kids what I believe to be true about homosexuality. Do you want the entire lecture? I've probably written here a few times anyway.

 

Yet you are an advocate for a medical treatment with no scientific evidance to support it.

 

Left or right handedness is absolutely genetic. I wouldn't compare it to sexual orientation, which has not been validated as positively genetic.

 

Medical treatment and psychiatric therapy aren't synonymous. It's not that I advocate something that isn't clinically supported. It's that I oppose banning something without evidence it's a hopeless and harmful endeavor. For the 80th time, I posted from APA's own resolution and clinical guidelines on the matter. There is no evidence either way that: a) sexual orientation is innate and immutable, nor b) attempts to change it are harmful. There isn't enough data, period. But knee-jerk statist want laws passed telling parents, children and doctors that they cannot attempt to change a child's sexual orientation. That's outrageous.

 

There is no complete evidance supporting the measure in either direction, I do not believe licensed doctors should be able to practice therapy that is unproven, untested, and not endorsed by any medical association.

If this was pertaining to any issue other than homosexuality there would be no reason for debate because the bill would have not been required in the first place. You seem logical so I wonder if your dislike of gay people is clouding your view? Maybe?

I can normally see issues from both sides (I understand the same sex marriage debate from the traditional standpoint, the ability for business to refuse service for any reason, various issues pertaining to religious protections and freedoms) but I cannot understand how some people are advocating for mental therapy on children that has no basis in medical fact or theory.

No one has made a single rational argument why this practice should be treated as any different than all other medical therapies besides they just don't like gay people, which is not valid medical reasoning.

If they develop a treatment that is effective and not harmful I would see no reason why it should not be allowed but until that treatment arrives the practice as valid therapy should not exist.

 

The only person who's opinion counts the most is not able to weigh in. The person going through this emotional turbulence should have a say in whether they want support or repair. What if they don't want to decide, but just want someone to be with them while they sort things out? Kids already know how their parents feel about the subject and you already know which kids will have to deal with on their own without the benefit of professional help.

I am glad this ancient practice is being reviewed and discussed. I am positive we can do better for our kids.

 

to this point, I agree. a program won't work if the person who is gay, does not want to change, or does not think change is possible. It's why I'm not a fan of parents compelling teens to go. It's a waste of time and money. However, if my kid is coming to me, and saying "I want help", that's not me compelling them.


It's just funny, if my son brought home a girl I did not like, and thought was going to cause him major issues in life, and I told him "son, I don't want her in my house, I don't support your relationship with her and it's causing harm to you (and others in the family)" and that's my parental right even though my son may not like me for it. Of course, if and when that relationship ends, that doesn't mean I wouldn't accept him back.

But, somehow, a parent telling a gay kid, not to bring their gay lover home for the same reasons (causing harm to them, etc), suddenly, I'm a homophboic bigot. Telling him I don't support his life choices, or allow them into my home to influence others isn't different if it's gay lifestyle, or drug lifestyle. It also doesn't mean I Hate them or disown them for life.

 

Doctors are not legally or ethically restricted from practicing therapies that have not been tested and approved by professional associations. The APA releases a guidebook to mental illnesses for therapists. It makes recommendations. They're not making drugs that require approval. If you read the APA's guidelines it does not prohibit therapists from attempting conversion. It says there isn't enough evidence to suggest it works. It says in "some cases" it has been harmful. Heck, in "some cases" rapists who sought and received therapy for sexual compulsion prior to committing rape, still went out and raped someone. That doesn't mean the therapist was doing the wrong thing. It means people are people and some will regress.

 

I could easily tell my son if he brought home a girl I didn't like or I didn't think was good for him (and I pretty much think I did more than once) but if he was gay (he's not) I wouldn't tell him I thought his boyfriend was bad for him just because he was male. It would be based on the character of the individual, not their gender.

 

I totally disagree that only someone dealing with it can speak to the efficacy of conversion therapy or the logic in creating a law.

Edited because that isn't really the point you made. Adults do have a say, and there's no law restricting them from getting conversion therapy nor from therapists practicing it. This one pertains to minors. That's an interesting point in itself, isn't it? Why, if it's so harmful and hopeless, isn't it being banned for adults?

 

No it doesn't. An anecdote from an individual that didn't want to be gay in the first place is extremely suspect. Prove they aren't just going through the motions.

What you need for it to be true is a tested methodology that is proven to be successful with more than anecdotes and that first does no harm. Anything less is not ethical.

 

I figure it's the same reason I used to believe that.

If he can't understand what sexual orientation is he has no business in this discussion. Perhaps he needs to see a shrink

 

I disagree with you. If a person is gay and doesn't want to be so desperately that they will seek out doctors that provide this type of therapy, they will say or do anything to hold onto that hope. If personal experience is so important to you, I know this first hand. People praying on these poor folks should never be tolerated.

Same reason smoking isn't banned for them.

 

People are never going to understand that. It makes no sense. If you are attracted to the same sex, if you are fantasizing about the same sex and not about the opposite sex, you're gay. That's what it means. People tend to want to have sex with people they ate attracted to. People start becoming attracted to the sex they are oriented toward before they even understand why. That's why adolescents is such an awkward phase.

Being gay or straight for that matter has everything to do with attraction. I could understand why you need to tell yourself this. I truly believed before I accepted my sexuality that if I just had sex with a woman that I'd start being attracted to them. It wasn't possible.

One day hopefully you'll understand that and embrace your sexuality.

 

Ok, so in the instance of homosexuality the risk of mental harm is worth the very small (I would argue negligible) chance of reducing same sex attraction in youth? Your own assertion that it is not a proven therapy while also arguing that children should be subjugated to "practice" by licensed mental health providers on the hope you can eliminate one gay person goes against any rational logic or compassion.

 

Preying - lol. I can pray on them all I want.

 

Good question. Because an adult is deemed competent to make that decision for themselves. Some parents believe that children are like a steak; the more you pound on them, the better they get. Child abuse laws supersede this belief and with good reason. It causes more harm than good.

Same here. Telling a child that they are a sexual deviant, possessed by a demon, or are going to hell cannot possibly help. I consider it abuse and support the law banning the unproven practice.

That brings up another question. If you are possessed by a demon and have an exorcism, but then can't pay for it, do you get repossessed?

 

You can't help it. Invoking religion again. The law pertains to licensed therapist for a reason, and it's not because spiritualists have convinced them to try it. Leave the snake charmers out of it.

 

How do you convince members of a religion who worship a father who tortured his own son on the cross, supposedly to redeem our sins, sins he made possible himself? Anyone who deludes themselves this myth is about a 'loving God' is not going to listen to arguments against invasive, dangerous psychological manipulations of youth.

 

What has convinced them then? Not medical study

 

Excuse me.

I disagree with you. If a person is gay and doesn't want to be so desperately that they will seek out doctors that provide this type of therapy, they will say or do anything to hold onto that hope. If personal experience is so important to you, I know this first hand. People preying on these poor folks should never be tolerated.

 

Flame bait and completely irrelevant to the topic. We've discussed it for days without people like you screwing it up.

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No one is preying on them. That's a strawman.

 

Outside of religious influence why would anybody think it's wrong? Religion invented the idea that it was wrong.