Make hydride legal and no need for gas. Convert water to hyrogen

Discussion in 'Science' started by Patricio Da Silva, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is also a way to use coal to make hydrogen, for later powering a fuel cell, and it turns out that that net process is actually just a little more efficient than directly burning coal itself.
    The main problem is storage of that hydrogen in the car. It's not an easy gas to compress very much, so typically these types of cars have had limited range.

    (And using coal to make hydrogen kind of defeats the whole point of the greenie feel-good initiative that's mostly behind all these alternative power efforts, even though it makes a whole lot more sense than electric cars currently)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    Then don't waste my time by responding to the thread.
     
  3. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    the point of the video was not was not a 'how to' video.

    All of your comment arising from that assumption, are therefore moot.
     
  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    Well, the military is not particularly noted for wisdom, so I'm not going to assume their reluctance to mean something.

    "IF he could sell it to the military". Sounds like a plan, but it might not be in Bob's plans to deal with the military. I have no idea.
     
  5. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, but it is a video that makes a series of definitive assertions, that this is a viable, practical and safe solution for domestic vehicles, that he had produced a fully working prototype and the end-to-end processing to support it and that the inability to buy "hydride" is/was the major blocker to full development and commercialisation of this solution.

    All of those assertions need backing up and there was not enough information in the videos to back any of them up. It should have been easy to for him to do at least some of that (actually running the car being the obvious oversight) and same very simple research raises several unanswered questions (such as, given basic information about the materials involved, would it really be as unconditionally safe as he implied and, given the type of hydride referenced in the video is now apparently available for general sale, why hasn't this process been further developed?). None of that means the claims are automatically wrong but it also means the claims aren't automatically right. We would need (much) more information to make any kind of reasonable assessment.

    And yours aren't? You based your comments on the video alone, with apparently zero understanding of the science behind it and zero effort to seek further information. I have some scientific experience (though not in this specific field) and did seek out further information so why would my comments be deemed less relevant than yours?

    We're all working on assumptions because there isn't enough information in the video to do anything else. That is my core point.
     
  6. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Hydrogen is the logical energy matrix for humans on earth.
     
  7. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I'm providing valuable input here.

    For instance, don't you think it's worthwhile to mention that Bob Lazar has a history of dishonesty, and making wacky claims about having worked at Area 51 where his job was reverse engineering the engines of alien spaceships?

    Do you think that tidbit might be important to know when assessing the credibility of Bob Lazar's claims?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  8. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how you're using the term "matrix" here, but hydrogen shouldn't be construed as an energy source, because it takes more energy to make hydrogen than the amount of energy it provides, so it's not an energy source, because it's a net loser of energy.

    If you're using the term "matrix" to mean like a storage medium, then yeah, that works. Hydrogen is a way to store and transport energy, and not an especially efficient one at that.
     
  9. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    It would, indeed, require a lot of energy to "make" hydrogen.
    Hydrogen and oxygen combining, thermally or for electron flow, make a very convenient combination on earth. It only asks for an external energy source. A fusion reactor would be good, and fortunately one is parked almost precisely 150,000,000 km. from here (about as close as one would want to get to such a thing).
    Fait accompli!
     
  10. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately(or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) the fusion reactor isn't yet fusioning, and it might not be for a good long while.

    That aside, why is the "convert the energy to hydrogen" step even necessary? Why not just use the electricity generated to do the job directly? What's the advantage of the hydrogen?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    True, more information is needed and Bob hasn't updated the video.
     
  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    Okay, you want to go down the 'is Bob Lazar lying about his employment at S4, and did he, in fact, work on UFOs?' rabbit hole,
    let's do it.

    I'll begin.

    Lazar never claimed to work at area 51, he worked at 'S4'.

    This has been confirmed by others who worked at Area 51: USAF Captain David Freehoff confirms Lazar's employment at S4.




    Lazar passes lie detector test. Note, there is more on this video than 'passes lie detector test', so I urge you to watch the entire video.





    I think, for every debunker's 'debunking claim', I can offer you a compelling counter argument.

    Lazar is a good man. Do people exaggerate their resumes to get once in a life time jobs? they might. Would I hold that against them, no.

    IF someone lied about something like working on UFOs for the US government, that would be a problem for me, if that is actually true, and in the case of Bob Lazar, I'm not convinced Bob is lying. I believe him.

    I'll give you my reasons, if you want to debate this. Opening moves offered, above. But, you'll need to watch videos I present to you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  13. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    Waste of time.

    He's got a long and storied past filled with deception, and outright lies.

    I've known of him as far back as the Art Bell days, but I lost interest in him when it became abundantly clear that he was, in large part, a fraud.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

    I did watch the recent documentary about him on Netflix, and it did absolutely nothing to redeem him.

    He's just a sad man who's suffered the sad consequences of having lived too many lies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member

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    Wiki's entry is refutable, vastly incomplete and one sided.

    And, I disagree with your statement. It's not true at all.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This wasn't true when you were posting about the AF tapes of "UFO"s that were released.
    This problem isn't necessarily about him lying.

    Like many ufologists, he may actually believe some of tht stuff he says.

    If you want to verify the science, you have to look at the science.
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    It''s a bit like saying the steam engine runs on water...it ran on steam that required a heat chamber, a steam chamber, water, and heat source. Yes it worked but was it practical?

    Hydrogen fuel technology will continue to evolve, although quite slowly, due to electric and hybrid-electric vehicle successes. Bottom line as with most all consumer stuff is consumer cost, serviceability, reliability/safety, and again...consumer costs...
     
  17. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Hydride: 'any of a class of chemical compounds in which hydrogen is combined with another element.'

    So your suggesting water is illegal to possess?

    As far as Lazar goes the onus is on him to demonstrate that the process he uses to generate hydrogen from water is different/superior/more efficient than other all the other bog standard forms of electrolysis currently in use. This thread doesn't do that, not even close.

    Lets be clear, dodgy video clips don't cut it. His 'device' requires independent examination, testing, and validation by recognized experts. And proper patents. No evidence of such for any of these things has been offered here.

    The classic con of the lunatic fringe inventor is the 'my device is secret' argument and cant be tested independently because then the idea might be stolen. So of course you just have to take his word and send him/her money to help 'perfect' it.

    Once again - this video and all the UFO posts belong in the conspiracy forum not the science forum. Else next we'll be discussing the evolutionary history of Big Foot or a 'real life' unicorn breeding scheme in need of investors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think public hydrogen vehicle success would require a huge network of hydrogen filling stations, along with their employees, hydrogen delivery infrastructure, etc. - just like with gas. They would have to be plentiful enough that owners can easily visit them from home or work every time they get low on hydrogen - like we do with gas.

    Cars with electric batteries can be charged at home. So, one doesn't even have to go to a filling station. Plus, plug-in slots are a cheap and easy solution that parking lots, grocery stores, restaurants and other places can add for little investment and no overhead for operators, delivery, etc. So, we're already seeing them spring up everywhere. Plus, electric storage tech is advancing rapidly in terms of how much energy may be stored, how efficiently batteries may be charged, efficiency of recoverying brake energy, etc. - especially with the onset of battery systems that include capacitors And, it already beats the $/mile of gas in significant regions - something hydrogen and gas can't do.

    To me, that adds up to being a seriously difficult hurdle for hydrogen - a fuel that still hasn't hit the needed competitive fuel price point against other car fuels even before paying to build and operate large numbers of service stations everywhere.

    I like the cleanliness of hydrogen, but I see hydrogen as a a dead end for privately owned vehicle transportation.

    The current advantage of electric battery systems over hydrogen is likely to widen, not narrow.
     
  19. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I provided more information which brought several of the claims made in the videos in to question - notably the headline claim - and in themselves the videos fail to actually support or demonstrate any of the claims made in them.

    I'm getting the impression that you weren't really interested in assessing the content of the videos but just wanted to promote the individual, which would be why you're either evading or outright attacking anything negative raised.
     
  20. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    As far as Bob passing a "lie detector", I'm sorry, but it's pretty pointless to use psuedoscience to try and prove psuedoscience.

    Lie detectors are bunk science, and there's a very good reason why their "evidence" has been roundly rejected by the courts.

    Lie detectors are a prop used by law enforcement for the purpose of witness intimidation, and by frauds trying to salvage their credibility with yet more fraud.

    Polygraph tests don't work as lie detectors and they never have ...
    https://www.popsci.com/polygraph-test-science/
    "There is no lie detector, neither man nor machine," the first empirical review of the machinery concluded in 1965, a view that has been supported by every scientific publication on the topic...

    Opinion | Lie Detectors Lie (Tell the C.I.A.) - The New ...
    https://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/19/opinion/lie-detectors-lie-tell-the-cia.html
    Feb 19, 1995 Three years later, at the start of his career as a Russian mole, Aldrich Ames passed a Central Intelligence Agency lie detector test. In 1991, he passed another, even though he was on the agency's he was on the agency's list of suspected moles and living at a level far above his $70,000 Government salary. Last summer, Dennis DeConcini, then chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, visited Mr. Ames in jail and asked how he passed the exams. "Well," Mr. Ames replied, "they don't work."
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 8:31 AM
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  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    Plus, whether he believes what he says isn't very interesting, and that's all a lie detector COULD determine even if it worked.
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    And all of this hydrogen infrastructure would need to be a viable business venture within the private sector. People and business will invest but it must be a profitable venture. The question might be when would there be a significant quantity of hydrogen vehicles, in all areas of the US, to justify these private investments? Can hydrogen technology become a significant portion of the US vehicle market or will it always be a niche market?

    All good points that will be difficult for hydrogen to compete. Maybe there's a market in long-haul trucking or buses?

    Yes...
     
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does everyone hear that? It makes more sense and is more "environmentally friendly" to make hydrogen from coal and then use that to power cars, rather than use electric cars, when that electric power from the grid ultimately comes from coal.

    So what's the rush to use electric cars?
    It's just a stupid emotional "feel-good" idea.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 10:44 PM
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  24. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    OK, a little bit of digging and here is I think what Lazar is waffling on about. Again its well known tech. I picked a video by someone who examines the chemistry (which is simple) and the pros and cons and possible uses. Its 13 minutes long but you can skip to the about the 3 minute mark if you want.



    In short Lazar's ideas are well understood science and this type of hydride is a well known product that (1) is not banned & (2) can be purchased/sold online.(surprise surprise).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 12:59 AM
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  25. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused what hydride means in this context? Is it an American term that means something else?

     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 1:01 AM

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