Monuments To The Confederacy

it does when you attack federal property and seize federal property

 

The Civil War in the North had nothing to do with Slavery in the beginning.

First it was about recovering federal property in the seceding southern states.
Before 1861 seceding from the Union was legal and Abraham Lincoln was one of the biggest advocates of being able to secede from the Union as you shell see below.

When President Lincoln was soon informed that the federal government couldn't pay its bills without the tax revenues from the South the Union invaded the South. From then on it was about preserving the Union.

Slavery became a military strategy that Lincoln's generals opposed that failed with the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 where as if the Southern states didn't rejoin the Union, all slaves in the South under Confederate control would be declared to be free. If the Southern States rejoined the Union things would go back as they were and slavery would continue in America.

Gen. Giap failed to read history and tried the same strategy during the Tet Offensive in 1968 during the Vietnam War. He got his butt whipped big time.

Lincoln on secession:

 

The reason for the secession was slavery. Period.

Everything which followed as a result of the secession had its roots in that cause. Period.

And Lee could have stayed home. He chose to fight to preserve slavery instead.

 

Every decleration of secession cited SLAVERY as the primary reason.

 

Robert E. Lee opposed slavery.
Because of the laws that were passed by states after the Nat Turner Rebellion it made it very difficult for slave owners to free the slaves they had inherited. Most Southerns opposed slavery.

You have either been exposed to revisionist history or indoctrinated in revisionist history.

Before the Great Rebellion as it was referred to in the North, Americans held their loyalty to the state they lived in not to the federal government. Read the freaking Constitution. The states were only obligated as members of the Union for the "Common Defense" of the Union.

Did you know that 99.9% of liberals who have been indoctrinated in revisionism believe that Robert E. Lee was a Democrat. Robert E. Lee was a Whig.


Only with large plantation owners and those representing them in Southern state legislators not all of them was secession about slavery in the South but new states in the future if they would become slave states or non slave states.

The vast majority of the Confederate soldiers on the battlefield weren't fighting to preserve slavery.

If the Nat Turner slave rebellion hadn't taken place,... slavery would have ended in America during the same year that England ended slavery in 1833.

Why do you think that the 13th Amendment failed being passed in the House of Representatives by the Northern Congressmen on June 15, 1864 ?

Slavery wouldn't become illegal until seven months later with the passage of the 13th Amendment and being signed into law on February 1st 1865.

 

yeah, and if the Jews hadn't rebelled in the Warsaw Ghetto, the Holocaust would not have happened.

blaming the victim, sucks.

 

13th amendment wasn't ratified until December 6, 1865.

 

Lincoln said a lot more than what he said at his inauguration. I am correct. He said more than one time, to preserve the union.

 

Secession can be said to be about Slavery. But get this in your head. It was Abraham Lincoln that called out the Union army and him that invaded VA. No confederate troops entered the union until much later.

 

The federal government wanted compensations $$$ for the federal property that was apprehended by the Southern states.

That would be arms that were in federal armories, army forts and U.S. court buildings and U.S. Post Offices. That was the federal property that the federal government was trying to recover.

When Robert E. Lee was serving in Texas during the late 1850s killing Comanches he was asked if Texas were to secede from the Union and Texas militiamen came after federal arms in federal armories what would he do ? He said he would fight to the death to protect federal property.

 

That is not the same thing at all. Poland was invaded. The South was invaded. Poland by the Nazis. The South by Lincoln. Abe the outlaw invaded. This can never be erased from history. Not even by going to monument Ave in Richmond and tearing down like the Taliban all those excellent enormous statues. God i love those statues in Richmond. We need some like those here in CA.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/civil-war/battles/battle-bull-run-facts-summary

 

He never said he would use force to preserve the union, only to use force to "collect duties and imposts".

Without using force, there is no war. You are wrong. Lincoln's reasons for using force were wholly to collect duties and imposts.

You need to show where Lincoln said he would use force to preserve the union. I'm very aware that he spoke about preserving the union, but never about using force to do so. Don't conflate what he said.

Ball's in your court.

 

Kristallnach

If German Jews were have been gun owners, the Holocaust woulde likely never happened.

But Hitler and the Nationalist Socialist power was with Germany's youth when Germany's children were indoctrinated in the schools beginning in 1922.

 

OK, if you say this was about secession, you are correct. If you say this means war, no you are not correct. Had Abe not called up 75,000 men to compose the army to battle, I see no way the South invades the North.

 

My Court is the battle of so called Bull Run or what we call Manassas. Abe invaded.

Return serve.

Do not tell me you have not learned the history of the first major battle that was done by Abe the outlaw to the state of VA?

 

You are mostly correct, being an amendment it had to be ratified by the states before it actually became law.

• January 31, 1865 - The House of Representatives passed the 13th Amendment (S.J. Res. 16) by a vote of 119 to 56.
• February 1, 1865 - President Abraham Lincoln signed a Joint Resolution submitting the proposed 13th Amendment to the states.
• December 18, 1865 - Secretary of State William Seward issued a statement verifying the ratification of the 13th Amendment.

I wonder how the 14th Amendment became law without being ratified by 2/3 of the states ???

 

The problem at large in Germany vs the Jews is the Jews were considered the bankers. Today in America, Democrats pull this same stunt on our bankers who they presume are Jews.

Germany, when I was there in 1962-4 primarily was either Catholics or Lutherans. Mostly Catholics i believe. They really did not mind going against the money class. Notice though when Hitler went after Jews, it was their shops and I do not recall banks being attacked. Before Hitler rose to power, there was a huge amount of prejudice in the public against Jews. But Jews only numbered maybe 800,000 so for most Germans they knew no Jews. Jews were mostly found in the larger cities.

Here in my city in CA, I sell real estate, happened upon an open house by the owner. I was thinking perhaps he might list with my company. Anyway, as I spoke to him, his accent was pronounced. I did not understand his accent. I asked him where he came from. He surprised me saying he was from China. But he had a different form of accent than Chinese plus he was tall and clearly a white man. He informed me his Russian family fled the Russian revolution and ended up in China where they banded together into small towns. The towns spoke Russian. I was mentioning to him Arkady Factorovich a kind of well known Republican from Ukraine who speaks fluent Russian. When I mentioned Arkady, the other Russian said that Arkady is no Russian, that he is a jew. I was surprised. It sounded to me like prejudice vs the Jews. I asked Arkady later if he was a jew and he said he is. I was known to Arkady and him to me from around 1980-1 until around 1996 or so. Arkady did architects work in the SF Bay Area.

Arkady told me that in Russia there is plenty of prejudice against Jews.

Arkady also told me about the Russian army. He was to be an officer by virtue of his college degree obtained at Kiev. Arkady said in Russia, the officers must spend one full year as an enlisted man. And the enlisted men must always wear the Army uniform for their enlisted time and never in civilian clothes under the soviets. Only officers could remove the uniform and then wear civilian suits. He remarked on the enormous difference in the Russian enlisted vs the Officers. He had to stay in the Soviet Army for around 6 years. Anyway he ended up what we know of as a Major. I forgot the Russian name. As an Officer he says he had a very good time. I guess one major reason he wanted out though was him and his family being Jews.

https://www.facebook.com/events/162194353948209/

https://www.c-span.org/person/?arkadyfaktorovich

 

Hell, he invaded. If you do not notice his force, I have no more to tell you. I have a hunch we are on the same side but if you truly want me to educate you, simply ask.

 

Yep, Sewards statement was on the 18th. Required # of States was complete on the 6th.

Never saw where it was ratified without the required # of States.

All the reconstruction amendments kinda befuddle me. How can States under military rule be considered in any position to vote on any amendments? Guess they made it up as they went along.

 

Robert, I have no idea what you're talking about. This whole discussion was about WHY Lincoln said he would use force, not that he did.

And, yep, we're on the same side.

 

Yes, Manassas was the first major battle. There were 2 other smaller engagements before, though .... The battle of Phillipi (usually referred to as a skirmish) and the battle of Big Bethel.

 

We agree that Abe's actions were worth more than words then?

 

I doubt this but let me ask. Do you intend to convey that actions are least important over words?

 

Hey, let's do each other a favor and just drop it. My posts on this and many other 'Confederate' threads make my position clear. I'm not going out into the weeds just to quibble with you.

 

No problem on this end. It was a mistake to quibble with me in the first place.