More than a dozen Confederate statues vandalized around the country so far in 2019

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by APACHERAT, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Lee was a traitor who took up arms against his own country. Countries tend not to celebrate such people.
     
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  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    President Abraham Lincoln called those people who called those in the South traitors "radical republicans."

    If you judge history to today's standards you are going to get it wrong and more than likely repeat the mistakes of the past.

    Before 1865 American's held their loyalty to the sovereign state they lived in not to the federal government in Washington DC.

    All you have to do is look at the "Order of Battle" of both of the North and South.
     
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  3. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    None of that changes the fact Lee was a traitor to the United States. He may have been a wonderful Virginian, but he was a terrible American.
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Was Fitzhugh Lee also a traitor ?

    Why would a traitor be allowed to be commissioned a Major General in the U.S. Army 30 years later after the rebellion.
    If it was a war there were no traitors.

    Pretty sure that traitors are felons and can't serve in the U.S. military.

    What about the other three Confederate generals who also served as Major Generals in the U.S. Army after the rebellion or was it a civil war ?
    If you don't know the answer, it can be found here. -> https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/v...ir=1&article=1252&context=faculty_scholarship

    Thousands of former Confederate soldiers would serve in the U.S. Army after the "Great Rebellion" or was it a civil war ?
    FYI:
    Fitzhugh Lee was the nephew of Robert E. Lee.






     
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  5. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Same reason they let Jeff Davis go after spending a couple years in prison, Ford pardoned Nixon, and Vietnam draft dodgers were collectively pardoned: crimes were obviously committed, but the country wanted to move on. The feeling was the South had suffered enough.

    You take your chances when you wage these kinds of wars. The North could very well have put Southern leaders and generals on trial for treason and hanged them. The South got lucky. Had the North been a bit more vengeful...

    ?

    They were traitors. They just weren't prosecuted. Benedict Arnold was never convicted of anything. Was he a traitor?

    They were all traitors.
     
  6. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Time to move on FlamingLib.

    BTW...
    When did you pick up arms and killed some commies or Islamist jihadist ?
     
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  7. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    I agree. But then, I'm not the one flying confederate flags and putting a bunch of statues up commemorating these guys

    Never.
     
  8. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    There's quite a lot of folks who detest anyone with a differing point of view or that doesn't think exactly like they do. They're growing and that is what's wrong with our politics today. The ever growing number who are intolerant of others differing point of view, political philosophy and ideology.

    Seems there's plenty of hate all around these days.
     
  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Certainly much disputed about [the monuments’] effect and purpose, why they were put there, their impact on people, the justification or rationale for them, and the intent of the benefactor. There is no real factual dispute as to what they are —war memorials.

    Every year the U.S. Marine Corps and Japanese Defense Forces honor those on both sides who paid the ultimate sacrifice on Iwo Jima.

    There are a number of memorials on Iwo Jima honoring the 6,821 U.S.Marines and sailors and the 18,375 Japanese soldiers and Japanese marines were killed on this little speck of land in the Pacific in 1945.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've never flown the Confederate flag in fact I haven't seen anyone flying the Confederate flag in my life time.

    Saw more than a few Confederate battle flags being flown in South Vietnam in 69 and 70.

    In fact American soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen have flown the Confederate battle flag on the battlefields during the Spanish American War, WW l, WW ll, Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq.

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  11. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Those really aren't examples of "moving on", you know. The South is obsessed with the Civil War, although this has been waning recently.
     
  12. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  13. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    No, it's what you said about an hour ago:
    I want to move on. I don't want to be stuck in the past. The statues should go.
     
  14. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it.

    Cultural-marxism aka political correctness adopted revisionist history to further the radical leftist political agenda.

    A battle flag becomes a national flag.

    A sporting rifle becomes an assault weapon.

    Blowing up monuments and toppling statues to erase history has even been adopted by the Taliban

    In 2001, the world reacted in horror as, part of a campaign to rid Afghanistan of idolatry, the Taliban destroyed the World Heritage Site Buddhas of Bamiyan...-> https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/fla...uction-of-the-buddhas-of-bamiyan-409457219869
     
  15. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Make up your mind, do you want to move on or not? And it's possible to study something like the Civil War without memorializing it.

    Huh? Cultural-marxism is why we associate a confederate battle flag with the confederacy?

    I never said anything about blowing up monuments. Stick them in a museum somewhere or on someone's private property. They shouldn't be on publicly owned land.

    Confederate statues are not priceless historical artifacts. And again, just get em off public property. I'm not advocating destroying them, and I don't think people should.
     
  16. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This statue honors a general whose army raped and pillaged from Atlanta Georgia to Savannah and then continued to rape black female slaves and pillaging and burning every home they came across in South Carolina

    [​IMG]
     
  17. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, is that Sherman? See, when we honor American heroes it's in spite of their flaws, not because of them. Sherman did heroic things. Lee never did anything heroic (maybe in the Mexican-American war, I don't know). He was a coward who wouldn't serve his country.

    Lee's actually worse than Trump. At least Trump didn't go and join the Viet Cong when he dodged the draft.
     
  18. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And? Who cares? You? Lol ...

    Get reality of what is today given and not in history ...
     
  19. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually it was Robert E. Lee who prevented Confederate soldiers becoming America's Vietcong.

    CSA President Jefferson Davis wanted Lee's Army of Northern Virginia and the other Confederate armies not to surrender but to move into the hills and wage an unconventional warfare, a guerrilla war against the North no different than what the People's Liberation Front (VC) did in South Vietnam.

    Lee ignored President Davis and opposed waging guerrilla warfare in America for ten or more years.

    Lets remember that when Lee's Army marched into stack their arms at the official surrender ceremony, Grant's Yankee soldiers came to attention and saluted the defeated Confederate soldiers.

    The Confederate soldiers returned the salute.

    It a military thing.
     
  20. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have no problem with saluting a worthy foe, but don't make it out like Lee is some hero because he didn't take to the hills. Had he done the right thing, and taken the top job offered by Winfield Scott, and fought for his country, the war would have been over in a couple months.

    It's one thing to fight a revolution over taxation or representation or freedom of religion, but to rebel against your own country because you want to own other people? What did Grant say?

    “I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly,” he wrote, “and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse.”
     
  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again you are judging history to today's standards, that's cultural-marxism's revisionist history.

    Before 1865 American's held their loyalty first to the state they lived in not to the federal government.

    In the South the Confederate armies were state armies.
    In the North the Union Army was mostly made up of state regiments.
    When Lincoln initiated America's first draft, each Governor in the North was notified on how many men and regiments the state had to produce.

    Slavery may have caused the Southern states to secede but there were other issues.
    90% of the Confederate soldiers did not own slaves and I seriously doubt they would fight so the elitist could own slaves.

    The North didn't invade the South to end slavery. At first it was to protect and take back government property then under Lincoln but to bring the rebellion states back into the Union.

    The Emancipation Proclamation was nothing more than a military tactic that was about as successful as Gen. Giap's Tet Offensive of 1968.

    The Crittenden-Johnson Resolutions on the Objects of the War, 1861

    Quoting Abraham Lincoln before the South succeeded...

     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Time to remove them from public and put them in the traitors hall of fame museum.

    What respectful humans will start a war over owning other people?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  23. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    according to the Vice President of the Confederacy, the primary reason for secession and the existence of the CSA was to preserve slavery and white supremacist rule over the "inferior black race"
     
  24. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are aware there was no such word as "supremist" or even "racist" in 1961.
    http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/supremist"

    Just as for the meaning and definition of "arms" as used in the Second Amendment , arms refers to weapons used by the military.

    http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/arms
     
  25. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Well-Known Member

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    More liberal stupidity born of ignorance
     

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