My advice to conspiracy theorists

The crash site is not consistent with a 757 having hit.
http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/...-plane-flew-over-pentagon.html#post1060818311

The shape of the nose of the craft that hit the Pentagon is not shape of a 757's nose.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

The craft that hit the Pentagon was too short to be a 757.
http://0911.voila.net/index4.htm
(fourth and fifth pictures from top)

Therefore, you're lying.

You are the only source I've ever seen that said jet fuel could be smelled and you're a known liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88JQL4esHFg
(2.20 time mark)

Here's the video with the witness who saw the plane on the other side of the Pentagon again so these guys can't bury it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKbT9r-6IPQ

Let's not forget that the government has ways of silencing troublesome people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU

I explained what I think is happening here in post #34.
http://www.politicalforum.com/consp...ce-conspiracy-theorists-4.html#post1061386990

 

You posting a link to "Scott's biggest gaffs" isn't evidence. It is proof that your claims are nonsense.

Your retarded opinion of what the nose of the aircraft should have looked like from a wide angle lens of a fast moving object is hysterical, but only proof of a massive ego.

Your retarded opinion of what the nose of the aircraft should have looked like from a wide angle lens of a fast moving object is hysterical, but only proof of a massive ego.

Really? Because YOU don't understand what constitutes proof by ANY stretch of the imagination means someone ELSE is lying? BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's a good one Scott! Did you think that up all by yourself or did you have to watch it in a video first?

Maybe you should get out and do some actual research then instead of letting videos dictate what you believe. Also, you should really be careful with the liar label since the only one proven to be knowingly lying here is you.

BTW, a single witness pretending she didn't see anything because she is trying to get money from the government isn't exactly reliable. How about the rest of the witnesses who DID see plane parts and seats? Oh right. You like to pretend they are all government plants. How retarded.

Source

Who would want to bury videos that make your claims stick out as the complete bull(*)(*)(*)(*) that they are? The funny thing is that even from the angles described your bull(*)(*)(*)(*) excuse of the plane trying to turn going 500+ mph to land at RIA are just laughable!

And why is it you CLAIM to go off physical evidence, yet ignore every shred of evidence that shows the plane came in at the angle the vast majority of witnesses claim? Oh right. Because you think everyone is plants and there were really two planes, but now they're coming in at different angles but nobody saw two planes because the media is controlled. Did I get that right?

Yet here you are. More proof the government isn't the ultra efficient single minded entity truthers would love to have you believe they are.

Really? So you whining like a little baby about other people is what you think is happening here? Man, you are seriously good for a laugh!

 

Scott,
I'll keep this short, since you are clearly a busy man, and a man on a mission to boot.

You need to seek psychiatric help, sir. The sooner the better.
You have immersed yourself in a cycle of sad and obsessive behaviors, and your demonstrated detachment from reality is apparent to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and education.

Please, I implore you;
Seek the counsel of a qualified psychiatrist or mental health professional.

This business of posting nonsensical crap on the internet, obsessing over ridiculous and moronic conspiracy theories, and calling respected men of science 'liars'.
It has gotten out of hand.

You need help, bud.
Get it.
Soon.

 

I have said this before but it bears repeating. Most of these so called "conspiracy theories" are nothing more then coping mechanisms for dealing with a horrible tragedy. I believe that the people who proscribe to these theories are actually trying to find order and reason in the tragedies as a way to comfort themselves. How comforting is it to believe that the most powerful man in the world, who was beloved by millions, could be killed by some random wacko with a rifle? That means that it could happen to any of us and what does that say about the competence of our government? How can they protect us if they can't protect the President? But if JFK was killed as a part a secret conspiracy, then the government is not incompetent, just evil.

Is it comforting to think that a group of determined but crazy-with-hate filled men used our own planes against us to attack the symbols of our economic and military might as well as killing over 2000 people despite all of the intelligence the different intelligence agencies collect.? Hell, if that is what happened, then what is there to stop it from happening again. But, if 9/11 was planned and executed by our own government, then again, our government is not incompetent, it is merely evil.

Now you may think that someone would rather have an incompetent government than an evil one, but just look at history. People will overlook people disappearing in the dead of night and the genocide of a race as long as they feel safe and the trains run on time.

So how does this apply to the Zionist, Islamofacist, Communist or Illuminati conspiracies? They are actually very similar, but instead of blaming the US government for the problems of the world (or just accepting that (*)(*)(*)(*) happens), the blame is put onto a shadowy world-wide organization (real or imaginary). Of course blaming another for one's misfortunes is a time honored tradition.

Now the conspiracy that had me stumped when looking for the reason in the belief of it, was the moon landing. Since the moon landing is generally viewed as a triumph and not a tragedy, it didn't fit into my normal model. However, one day I was reading an article about how American society was affected by the moon landing in that it was an achievement that we will never measure up to and how it has become a symbol of failed expectations. It's like the old joke, "How come we can put a man on the moon but we can't...(put your unsolved issue here)?" Looking at the moon landing in this context, it is easy to see why people would want to believe it was faked. Who could possibly compete against that? Say, you are still living with your parents and spend most of your time trolling forums and your greatest achievements are getting the high score on Angry Birds and having the largest Hentai collection in the state. It kind of suffers in comparison to walking on another world. However, if the moon landing was faked and you were the one to tell the world, then suddenly, your life has meaning which I guess is what all the conspiracies boil down to.

 

DarkDaimon,
That was one of the most thoughtful and intelligent responses I have ever seen on these boards.
Well said, sir.

I have studied human psychology for most of my adult life, and I agree with your position and suppositions.

The simple, tragic truth seems to hard to believe.
A fantastic and elaborate government conspiracy or cover-up HAS to be the answer.

A lone ex-Marine with low self esteem and something to prove shoots a a popular and charismatic President to death in broad daylight.

An aging, screwed up movie queen takes too many pills, and dies in her bed.

Andy Kaufman dies of cancer.

Elvis Presley is so addicted to pain pills, and so incredibly overweight, and his poor digestive tract is so backed up and impacted with feces, that he dies on the toilet of a heart attack, straining to make a bowel movement.

A handful of radical muslim jackasses, armed with box cutters, manage to hijack four planes and fly three of them into their intended targets.

All those simple truths are just too hard to believe.
If something that sad can be true, then all the other sadness and tragedies (and potential gloomy outcomes) are just as likely to occur in MY life.
There's no way.

Some ridiculous, fantastic, government-run conspiracy and cover-up is clearly the answer. (And Elvis and Andy are still alive.)
And I found this web link that tells me what I want to hear, and so it must be the truth!!
And if you don't agree with me, you are a LIAR.

Anyway.
Well-stated, DarkDaimon.

 

You two are pretty good sophists...
http://www.politicalforum.com/consp...ce-conspiracy-theorists-4.html#post1061386990

...but the proof that 9/11 was an inside job is so clear that your tactics are only going to sway a few of the viewers who don't take the time to actually look at it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Anyone who isn't a disinfo agent and looks at the proof and still maintains that 9/11 wasn't an inside job should listen to these psychologists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEGgAk1AbA4


Hey sparky2

What do you think of Patriot911's having been caught in two lies on this thread?

He misrepresented the evidence to mislead the viewers who didn't have the time to actually look at it. That is a classic disinfo tactic.

 

(from post #54)

The proof that the moon missions were faked is as clear as the proof that 9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4001964&postcount=1

 

Scott,

Stop with the nonsense links, and don't bother trying to point out where other posters may or may not have 'lied', in your opinion.
Such diversionary tactics don't work with me.
Because I have no agenda.

Stop also with trying to sway me toward nonsensical beliefs in 911 Government conspiracies, or God forbid, some notion that the moon landings were faked.
I am an intelligent, compassionate, well-trained man of science. I am also an independent (non-partisan) freethinker.
There is nothing you can post that is going to cause me to believe any of that fantastic silliness.

LET'S GET DOWN TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER THEN, and have a real conversation.
Man to man.

I am advising you, for your own good, to seek professional psychiatric help.
I offer this advice out of compassion for you, and out of concern for your family, friends, and coworkers.

Such obsessions and delusions aren't healthy.

If you are able to maintain some sort of sane family life, and are able to hold down a job, then I applaud you.
Clearly then your obsessions are compartmentalized, and they have not interfered with other facets of your life.
In this scenario, you have chosen to simply use the internet to vent your paranoia and obsessive delusions.

IF, however, you have no family connections or relationships to speak of, and your fantasies have kept you from keeping a steady job,
then I IMPLORE you.
Get help.
It's free, if you will only walk, drive, or catch a bus down to your local County Department of Mental Health Services.

Do it, sir.
You'll be happier in the long run, trust me.
I care about you as a human being, and I really want you to get some help.

 

I lied? Wow. So show us where your witnesses say the plane flew over the Pentagon instead of hitting it. Go ahead. Oh wait. Of the dozens of times I've asked you for evidence, you have yet to produce a single piece. And you call ME a liar?

WHAT evidence? More absolute proof positive you lie and are completely dishonest. You have yet to produce a single piece of evidence. Your (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up retarded opinion is not evidence in ANYBODY'S book. I've presented you with numerous flaws in your theory. You have yet to address them other than to whine, (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and moan that people are lying and misrepresenting the evidence, but that is all it is. Childish temper tantrums to cover the FACT you can't defend what you claim to be true.

BTW, I responded to your whining about the 90 degree part. You failed and failed BIG TIME to respond to exactly why it had to be 90 degrees. Are you now claiming two planes came in at two different angles? It is your claim two planes came in at the same time; one crashed, the other flew over. Now they would have to be coming in at two completely different angles in order for one of them to pretend to be landing or taking off. BTW, you DO know a runway is only used for incoming or departing aircraft, not both at the same time, right?

Now quit your temper tantrum and respond to the clear issues with your theories you are going to have to explain before ANYONE with an IQ higher than a vegetable is going to buy your bull(*)(*)(*)(*) stories no matter HOW many links you post.

 

If you're a man of science, let's hear your analysis of the flag anomaly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
(2:35 time mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

 

Patriot911,
I can only advise you sir.
It's up to you to take the advice and run with it.
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."

I have learned over lo these many years not to argue with, nor become engaged in a debate with:
* fools
* insane people
* addicts
* alcoholics
or
* ex wives

Scott.
The waving flag on the moon; really?

The entire issue was debunked and put to bed long before you were born, I suspect.
And again, I do not care to argue with you over such foolish and (frankly) sad paranoiac fantasies.

Scott. Buddy.
Brass tacks, now.
I'm serious, friend.
Please do not take offense, and do not bristle in a manner that compels you to become deaf and blind to my plea;

Get help.
It is no shame.
Many, many men and women seek psychiatric advice whenever their life isn't turning out the way they had hoped.
Thousands and thousands of perfectly okay guys and gals need help every now and then.

This is clearly your time.
Get help.
If you are afraid to take the first step, by all means, PM me or telephone me.
I'll talk you thru the steps necessary to get things started.

256-679-5567 cell

 

Thanks for the advice sparky2, but I am not out to convince him of anything. At this point I don't think that is possible. I write to expose him and people like him to anyone reading their crap. Ignoring their crap is tantamount to agreeing with it at some level. While I wholeheartedly agree with their freedom of speech to say what they want to say, I also wholeheartedly agree with my freedom of speech to respond. People using human misery and loss to fuel their anti-government / anti-semitic / anti-insert bad guy of choice agenda is fundamentally wrong, especially when they so blatantly lie about it.

Take Scott's current example. He would have you believe the following facts are true:

Two planes flew into the Pentagon on 9/11. One crashed, one flew over the Pentagon.
The plane that flew over the Pentagon proceeded to make a very high speed (far outside the bounds of where the plane could be safely flowin without ripping the wings off), highly dangerous turn at very low level (50-100 feet off the deck) to land at Reagan International Airport.
The National Mall was emptied to prevent witnesses from seeing what happened.
All witnesses (except those who saw the plane come in from a different angle) are government plants. The witnesses who saw the plane come in at a different angle are wrong when they believe the plane hit the Pentagon because they didn't see it fly away.
Any witnesses who may have witnessed the plane flying over the Pentagon and landing at RIA were either killed or suppressed by the MSM.
Pilots in the area were told a bogus story to explain the plane coming in at a crazy angle, far too low, and several hundred miles an hour faster than what a plane lands at.

He has yet to explain the following:

Not one witness claims they saw more than one plane.
Not one witness saw a plane fly over the Pentagon.
The security camera shows one plane impact the Pentagon and the explosion was not distorted by the massive amount of air disturbance the second plane would have left in its wake.
No radar signature shows more than one plane.
All physical evidence in the Pentagon points to the plane being a Boeing 757.
All forensic evidence points to the passengers on the plane being the same passengers on Flight 77.
The FDR shows it was flight 77.
Not one witness at RIA says anything "odd" happened at RIA in regards to an unscheduled plane landing.
Not one witness at RIA saw an unidentified plane landing and being taken to a different part of the airport.

He has no explanation as to why the government would come up with such a ludicrously complex and idiotic way to crash a plane into the Pentagon, especially since every conspirator would be put to death if they were discovered. IF his bull(*)(*)(*)(*) claims were true, a two year old would have no problem picking apart the government story because there would be tons of witnesses, the evidence wouldn't match the story, and everyone would have seen two planes coming in, not one.

But that didn't happen. Scott has absolutely zero evidence to back up his claim. Repeated attempts to get him to post one single piece of real evidence will only get you a spam post of other threads where Scott got his ass kicked. Why? Because even Scott knows he has no evidence. His retarded opinion doesn't count as evidence. He knows it. I know it. And now anyone reading this thread realizes it as well.

It is nice that you are trying to help Scott, but, quite frankly, I believe you have a better chance of convincing him we landed on the moon. The flag waving is just the tip of the loony iceburg when it comes to his moon landing BS. It is obvious you truly care and are trying to help. For that you have my respect and admiration.

 

It's okay, Patriot911.
Scott is not the disease, he is only a symptom of the disease.

The disease is an ignorance and a media-fed bias against the truth.

Scott is not a bad man, nor is he a particularly malevolent or harmful man.
He is merely ignorant, and he is merely maligned against the collective body of common sense and credible evidence.

There are political forces that would use him as a tool against those who would express the truth, and against those who would act as honesty-brokers.

Remember that.
And this is important.
Unhinged tools are ready and willing fodder for the cannons of craziness and political exigency.
Scott doesn't know it, nor does he have the intellect to comprehend it, but he is a human sabot.
He is a useful knuckle-head, and he is almost certain to fall into the hands of those who would use his over-zealous fanaticism to help bring down the political candidate that his masters dictate should fall.

Somebody like Scott is always swallowed up in the political exigency of the November election shenanigans.
Follow his postings, and watch how he is easily led toward and inevitable political outcome.

It's like watching the setting of the moon, and the rising of the sun.
Predictable, and ultimately boring.

 

*an*, not 'and'.

And my apologies to all for an unusually bitter posting last night.

I made the mistake of turning on the television yesterday evening, and watching a bit of cable news.
I rarely, if ever, watch the tv, unless it's the NFL season.

I was reminded, after watching 10 or 15 minutes of politically-spun mainstream media garbage, exactly why it is that I gave up watching the television.

Anyway;
That unfortunate experience set my teeth on edge, and it propelled me to make a posting that imbued Scott with certain attributes.
Attributes that I had no right to imbue him with, and ones that had no foundation in demonstrated fact.

Anyway, I apologize for that.

Scott, you are probably a real nice guy in real life.
You're a knucklehead, don't get me wrong, but I'm sure that you're a good fellow, and not at all a tool of any political party.

 

They'd laugh you out of the debating hall for this response. If this isn't really an anomaly,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymwE1sNm82Y
(2:30 time mark)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00

...explaining it should be child's play. Why don't you explain why the flag moved without being touched the way it would in atmosphere if you maintain that it was in a vacuum? Why don't you explain why MythBusters didn't inadvertently prove the astronauts were in atmosphere in the second video?

What do you think of what these psychologists say?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEGgAk1AbA4

Your underlying strategy seems to be to bury the 9/11 inside job proof and the Apollo hoax proof to reduce the number of people who see it. I can thwart you by reposting it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4001964&postcount=1

The proof that the government lied is so clear that the only thing you can do to sway public opinion is try to keep people from seeing it.

Here are some more theories that may turn out to be true.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145871
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146376
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185778

There's more interesting stuff here.
http://waronyou.com/forums/index.php?action=forum

 

Hee hee hee.

This is not a debate we're having here, young Scott.
(A debate is a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting, web forum, or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.)
Since I don't trust your mental state, and I don't believe anything you are putting forward, any attempt at 'debating you' would be an exercise in futility.
I learned a long time ago never to waste my time arguing with a drunk, an addict, or a mentally unbalanced person.

What you and I are having could best be described as, "Sparky2 schooling Scott on the ways of the world, and on ways in which he might become a better person and a more effective complainer."

Please do the following for me, I implore you;

a. Go back and read the original posting that I started this thread with. In it is some really sound advice on how to effect meaningful change and positive outcomes for the topics that you rant and rail over here on these boards.

b. Get some psychological help.
Really.
You need help, Scott.

 

And for bystanders watching this thread?
Let me make this perfectly clear;

I do not trust the federal government one iota.
Useless politicians, bureaucrats, and crooks, just about every one of them.

They take our tax dollars and use them for their own pet programs, and to support a widespread and out-of control system of fraud, waste, and abuse.
And they still manage to run us deeper and deeper into debt, each and every minute of each and every day.

But here's the important thing;

Our federal Government is incompetent.
And they are incapable of pulling off any sort of stunt, scheme, caper, or cover-up
anywhere near the complexity that you people suppose they must have.

Whether it was 911, or JFK, or the moon landing.
They are incompetent, gossiping, bureaucratic, useless (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s.

Get it?
You are barking up the wrong tree.

 

What always blows my mind is how conspiracy theorists actually believe the government has some borg like hive mind where they all think alike even after decades of time has gone by. Ten minutes working with a group of government bureaucrats should cure even the most die hard conspiracy theorist that our government is incapable of coming to any kind of agreement everyone agrees with, much less some evil conspiracy that everyone involved will keep silent about no matter how much fame, noteriety, money they can make or how badly they can screw over some co-conspirator they've had a falling out with.

In other words, the one thing conspiracy theorists cannot account for is human nature, which, ironically, is at the core of their conspiracy theories.

 

Well, yes and no. "The government" is not static. There are different groups in power at different times, and while some may be incompetent. others may not be. You are making the same generalization error in reverse. For instance, we DID go to the moon right? (And I say that without irony or sarcasm, I am not a "moon landing was fake" guy) That's quite an accomplishment for incompetents who can NEVER pull off any major "stunt". But sometimes there is failure as well. An example: the one conspiracy I am dead sure about (because it was botched so badly): the OKC bombing. I mean, 2 out of 3 bombs didn't even go off, how incompetent is that? But when something like that happens, I know that the human spirit is to "try, try again", and the OKC bombing is thus a major reason why I am suspicious of 9/11. And sometimes incompetence and arrogance collide, such as when George H.W. Bush started openly calling for the New World Order. So each case must be viewed individually; you can't just say "conspiracies are fake because the government is incompetent". Some are fake, some are real.

 

No comment?

 

No, Jango.
I have no comment on that topic, except to say to you what I expressed in the very first posting in this thread.
People need to realize the futility in posting nonsensical links to lunatic-fringe conspiracy-theory websites,
and,
get together, rather, with credible, like-minded individuals,
lobby some well-heeled financiers and well-placed senior politicians that you can trust,
and submit a formal request for an investigation (or in this case, a request for release of information under the Freedom Of Information Act).
Bickering and trading barbs over web forums JUST ISN'T GETTING THE JOB DONE.

Fifthofnovember,
I must concede that I made an overly-broad generalization there.
Of course the men and women at NASA in the 1960's were brilliant and hard-working, and they accomplished incredible things.
My hat is off to them.

But I stand behind the substance of what I intended to convey.
By "stunt", I meant to say 'a fantastic and elaborate plan designed to fool a lot of people, and then cover up all traces of governmental complicity'.
Considering the breadth and scope of any of the '911 was fake' or '911 was planned and executed by the US Government' theories out there, one would have to believe that hundreds or thousands of government agents and senior leaders all conspired, and that NOT ONE OF THEM WOULD EVER LEAK THE PLAN, STAB ANOTHER FELLOW IN THE BACK, OR BLAB OFF ABOUT THE PLAN TO A HOOKER OR GIRLFRIEND.

I have worked for the government for many years, and I know human nature.
It's just not possible.

On the same general topic, consider some of the fantastic 'JFK' theories.
Can you (or anybody) imagine that hundreds of men, working for a large variety of disparate agencies, including the FBI, Secret Service, CIA, and the Dallas Police Department,
could conceive of a plan to shoot the president, and then execute that plan,
and none of them would ever blab about it later on?

Come on, man.

 

I love it when conspiracy theorists "prove" one conspiracy they couldn't prove with another conspiracy theory they couldn't prove as the proof.

 

I only have this to say:

If the transcripts of Bush and Cheney's testimony were released, but showed nothing, would you be satisfied? I sincerely doubt it.

Now I have a question for you:

Would the 9/11 commission still write the report with the conclusions they had if Bush and Cheney had told them about the supposed conspiracy?

 

WTF are you talking about? I said the OKC bombing makes me "suspicious" of 9/11. I never said that it proved it. And I can and have proved the OKC bombing. So to you.

 

Well, of those agencies, one in particular stands out as having a culture of secrecy: the CIA. Now JFK was before my time, so I can't speak authoritatively on it, but I have heard that a CIA agent named E. Howard Hunt did make a deathbed confession about the JFK assassination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Howard_Hunt

There's your guy who blabbed about it later on.